This war spoils our relationship....too much?

[AoA]

Is the immediate -3 relationship you get from war too much too soon? This last game on Warlord, I get a message that war has been declared on me. The AI ship has just entered my water border and there's no units on my land yet. A shot hasn't even been fired and I can't even make an attempt at diplomacy as the AI won't talk to me. So now I'll be stuck in a drawn out island hopping war until I can get the AI to talk to me again.

I know people like to battle, but how about a Peacemonger checkbox on the Custom Game screen so I can play relatively peacefully (and get out of wars fast)while I ramp up the difficulty.

[ghen]

Well you have the 100% peace option already, you'll need to make a mod for anything different. Try giving gifts to civs that don't like you much.

[Adagio]

Originally posted by ghen
Try giving gifts to civs that don't like you much.

In my games this has had no effect at all. I've only seen a + in relationship if I give in to their demands, but never if I gave it as a present without them demanding it... and even then it only gives +1 or +2, nomatter how many times I've given what they demanded

[AoA]

I'd like some ability to go to war, so I'd prefer not picking the 100% peace option. It just seems that the AI will see a weak newly planted city, decide to declare war and now I won't be able to talk him out of it. I guess I'll mod it somehow, though I figure since we're still patching, I'd put out the thought for maybe another option. Maybe a slider type system.....or even like how we choose the terrain

WAR ()VERY AGGRESSIVE ()NORMAL ()HIPPIES
TECHS ()GENIUS AI ()NORMAL ()GUMP AI
EXPAND ()ICS ()NORMAL ()BUILDER

I know the individual civs have their preferences, but maybe something to set the tone of the game aggressive or laid back.

To Adagio: I get pluses from gifting, but it usually takes a few turns and a few gifts to see even a temporary improvement in their attitude. It does always seem to max out at +1 or +2 and I gift a lot. I'm a dove, I guess. My complaint is I can't even bribe the war starter since we're at war and he won't talk to me...even though the war's been on for 3 seconds and his closet unit is still 4 tiles away from my city sitting on a boat.

[pauli]

WAR ()VERY AGGRESSIVE ()NORMAL ()HIPPIES

more like

WAR ()VERY AGGRESSIVE ()HIPPIES ()NORMAL

[Grumbold]

The best way to avoid war is to keep relationships positive with as many as possible and keey your military strength higher than average. I've never had the AI pick a war over a new city unless I'm already in its bad books and planting it down where our borders clash.

Warring over an aggressively placed city strikes me as smart. I can see the "no talking" being sensible for the Ai too, since it takes a bit of planning to launch a war and it helps the AI behave sensibly if you can't flip them out into peace before they've had a chance to make those turns of preparation count for something.

[James M]

It's just human nature to hate the people you hurt.

Seriously, if the idea is to show every modifier to attitude (which I think is preferable to having some phantom +/-'s) then this is necessary to avoid the AI being 'friendly' while attacking you.

As for a peacemonger game... talk softly and carry a big stick is still good advice.

[carlisimo]

I think the modifier makes perfect sense. You dont' go to war before pumping up your populace to hate the target country. And if you're the one attacked, the hatred comes immediately.

But the slow pace of some wars is stupid. Wars from countries far away that can't (or just don't) reach you are stupid. They need to do something about that.

But maybe if the AI is the one declaring war on you, there shouldn't be much of a modifier until you do anything back to them.

[AoA]

Yeah, well its them attacking me relatively unprovoked. I guess that my main complaint. They're -3 to me and they started it...I should be -3 to them, but I just want to relax with my couple of cities.
I've had civ's being "cautious" with open borders and some trade going on with +'s and -'s being equal come from across an ocean and attack a defenseless city.

But James, you are right. I find the AI keeps a wide berth when I have a nice mix of units in my cities. I had 4 AI's and me on a duel map and yet no one dared attack me.

I can see the 'no talking' making sense. I'll just spend a few shields on better defenses and some Singularity 'Copters.

[Peter Triggs]

I can't even make an attempt at diplomacy as the AI won't talk to me. So now I'll be stuck in a drawn out island hopping war until I can get the AI to talk to me again.

...

now I won't be able to talk him out of it. I guess I'll mod it somehow,

Try this to get over that non-negotiating period. (No promises but I think it will work.)

Open up ...\Assets\XML\Civilizations\CIV4LeaderHeadInfos.x ml and back up the file.

Each leader has an iRefuseToTalkWarThreshold entry that is set to 10. This is the number of turns that you have to be at war before the leader will talk to you; so change it to 1 or something.

[LDiCesare]

The refuse to talk for 10 turns (and 19 turns peace) has been made, in my opinion, to avoid cheats like - declare war- sue for peace and take a lot of money out of the opponent. Or worse: have your ally declare war on opponent and see them male peace one turn later.
The minus to relationship due to being at war strikes me as essentially useless in terms of dipomacy. Your relations are "war" so it's about -infinity. I suppose it is used by the ai when bargaining. The least they like you (the longer the war lasted) the least they are likely to give you.

[gilfan]

Originally posted by Adagio


In my games this has had no effect at all. I've only seen a + in relationship if I give in to their demands, but never if I gave it as a present without them demanding it... and even then it only gives +1 or +2, nomatter how many times I've given what they demanded

if they politely ask you for something and you give it to them, you get "+1 You gave us help."

If they demand something and you give it to them, you get "+1 You gave us tribute"

If you give them something without them asking for it, it doesn't show up as help or tribute... it shows up as trade relationship. Add up the point value of all the techs you've given them, and subtract the techs they's given you. The difference adds up and can become up to a +4 modifier. If you trade them a 1000 point tech for a 400 point tech, that's +600 in your favor. If you just give them the 1000 point tech without getting anything in return, that's +1000 in your favor.

[AoA]

I never thought I'd say it buy suing for peace seems like a real-life tactic. The biggest guy on the block should be able to bully the little guys. They can capitulate until they can't take it anymore and then the war should be longer lasting. I understand the need for the 'no talking' but its unfortunate that Firaxis could not program some other method to prevent the sue-for-peace exploit without just putting in a 10 turn delay.

Historical example....Britain was certainly willing to give up Czech to Germany to prevent a war. This game needs appeasement technques and true diplomacy, not artificial blocks to prevent exploits. I would have given up several techs or resources to prevent a war that I wasn't prepared for (I didn't have enough ships in the area to move my troops)

I learned though, the best defense is a strong offense.