Theocracy not working?

[Diadem]

In my most recent game I'm trying to convert some of my neighbours to my religion (hinduism). I managed to found some more religions, so some of my cities have multiple religions.

I have one neighbour who doesn't have a religions yet, and I want him on my side. So I switched to theocracy to avoid having my other religions infect him.

Only... They still did. Suddenly he catches confucionism. Which I founded and noone else has.

Isn't theocracy supposed to avoid spreading of non-state religions?

Is it broken or am I missing something?

[DRoseDARs]

Theocracy only stops the spread of non-state religions in YOUR state, not others. He'd have to have theocracy too.

[Diadem]

You're kidding me right?

What's the point of theocracy then? It's utterly useless except for being able to determine which religion goes to your neighbours.

[Bill3000]

It prevents other religions from spreading into your civilization, obviously.

Plus the military bonus is nice.

[Diadem]

Damn that. It's so stupid.

Organised Religion allows you to build missionaries and speeds up construction a lot. I could have converted him manually long ago, but I wanted to be sure I didn't accidently spread the wrong religion before I could convert him manually.

All that time wasted for nothing... Bah.

Lucky the game has just spirited away my savegames. Gives me a good reason to restart :P

[vmxa1]

Since you founded it, pop missionaries to send to all your towns and convert to it, He will like you.

[vee4473]

yes, missionaries will get him to your religion, and I think that is all you need...

This does raise an interesting point. Do multiple religions afffect a civs stance to you, or can he have all 7 and as long as he has yours too he will be ok with you?

Because you seem to think that a rival civ must have ONLY your religion in order for you to receive the benefits.

And this is not true of the monetary benefits. If you have founded Christianity (and built the required special building), it doesn't matter what other religions he has, you will still get the bonus.

As for the diplomacy benefits, I am not sure if it is diluted depending on how many other religions a rival civ has.

oh, and vmx, hows the performance going?

[vee4473]

and as for Theocracy, it is useful for preventing other civs from spreading their religion to you, thus preventing THEM from getting the money.


edit: you have to have it as your state religion to get the money

[djpsychonaut]

It doesn't matter what religions you have in your cities for other civs to like you more. They only care about your state religion. If all of your cities have two religions: Taoism and Christianity, but your state religion is Taoism the AI player with a Christian state religion will still hate you. The AI only cares about the position of your government on a religion.

Likewise, you could have one measley city with population of 1 out in your frontier out of a huge empire with a different religion. If you convert your state religion to that, then civs with the same state religion will like you more. It just wouldn't be a good idea to do that in most cases because only the tiny city gets the benefits versus your whole empire.

[Diadem]

Well I want to spread my state religion for the diplomatic relations and the spying options. The money is a nice bonus but not my primary concern.

Of course I can still spread it if he already has another religion. But it'll be a lot more difficult. If he has no religions I only have to convert one city, doesn't matter which one. If he already has a religion I need to convert a lot more, and then get him to switch somehow. That's harder. A lot harder.

As to keeping other civs from spreading their religion to you. Well.. Religion only spreads to unreligious cities. So it's a simple matter of making sure your cities already have a religion. Which is easy. You really don't need theocracy for that.

[djpsychonaut]

Diadem,
Fear not foreign religions... They actually can help you build culture because you can build more than one temple and monastery. It also raises the roof on the total number of catherals you can build since the temples of different religions are counted separately.

Also, it's not a lot more difficult to add a second religion to a city with a missionary, but if your relying on pure chance that they'll convert to the "right religion," shame on you... the Civ 4 engine is not looking to make your life easier....

It usually isn't even difficult to add a third, although adding a third does sometimes fail. If you want to convert a rival civ from one religion to another, hit up their capital city first and then their next major city. Shot for a manufacturing center first to try to get the AI to recognize the strategic advantage of switching religions (think Organized Religion civic).

I usually find that I can convert a civ that is majority unreligious in 3 cities or less.

How many other cities in your game have this rival religion?

[Diadem]

I know that more religions is better. But *if* you want to keep a religion out (to avoid spying, for instance) then you really do not need theocracy for it. That was that point I was making. Theocracy is, basicly, entirely useless.

As to converting other civs who already have a religion. I know it's possible, and not even too hard in this case. But it's more work then it would have been had he not had a religion. And if my state religion would have spread instead of the wrong one, it would have been even better

I switched to theocracy thinking it would avoid spreading non-state religions. It turns out, they still spread, and meanwhile I can't build missionaries and don't have the 25% production bonus.

[djpsychonaut]

Honestly... I view the non-spread of state religions as a cost of the civic and not a benefit.

[Datajack Franit]

Theocracy becomes kinda useful in Monarch ===> Deity games, when you cannot give your opponents the advantage of both a spy and +1 gold for every city converted

[djpsychonaut]

Originally posted by Datajack Franit
Theocracy becomes kinda useful in Monarch ===> Deity games, when you cannot give your opponents the advantage of both a spy and +1 gold for every city converted

Very true... I am forgetting the spying/gold element.