Using Great Prophet/Scientist/Engineer/Artist as a mini-Great Merchant?

[Common Sensei]

We all know that Great People have the option for either discovering a tech outright (or giving a number of beakers towards a tech) in addition to the other things each type can specifically do, but how about using the tax rate to have them act as a makeshift Great Merchant if you need the cash?

Using the tech discovery gives you a number of turns of research for free. If you're not trying to play catch up and are about even in the tech race or ahead, those "free turns" can be used to economic advantage by turning Science and Culture rates down to 0% for the duration of those free turns to pour all of the commerce to gold.

If the number of turns the Great Person is saving you multiplied by your total nationwide commerce is equivalent to the amount of money a good trade mission would get you (at least 1500) then I'd say it's worthwhile to consider.

One can always go 0% Science on their own to get the upgrade cash, but if you're just not getting Great Merchants, or the need is immediate (such as war) and you have other Great People available, this method will patch the leak in research it would cause.

[Rancidlunchmeat]

Whats the point of money?

As long as you have enough to cover your maintenance costs , what else
do you use it for? Do you really upgrade that many units?

Isn't it better to simply take the extra tech advantage? Why reduce your science funding because you can "make it up" by getting a free tech? Get the free tech and keep your science funding pounding!

[Common Sensei]

I would much rather obtain the money to upgrade 30 units than put 30 units into the production cues of my cities to replace them that could be building other things.

Hammers are worth more than gold. Cheaper techs can be traded for. If you are willing to undergo Anarchy to change civics for non-Spirituals (which halts science as well), a few turns of reduced, but backfilled Science funding should not be out of the question to modernize an army, especially if you just got into a war with one or more civilizations.

[khumak]

Originally posted by Rancidlunchmeat
Whats the point of money?

As long as you have enough to cover your maintenance costs , what else
do you use it for? Do you really upgrade that many units?

Rushing buildings. With a decent supply of money coming in you can get your newly conquered cities up to speed very quickly so that they're actually earning you money instead of costing you money each turn which allows further expansion. I generally do theatre, harbor, granary, factory in each conquered city and then let them build normally unless I have nothing else to spend my money on.

It's also great for rushing any new buildings you gain access to in your unit building or wonder building cities so they can go back to building units and/or wonders. My city that gets Heroic Epic and Westpoint is always fully up to date on all buildings and never takes longer than 2 turns to build any of them before going back to building more units.

Isn't it better to simply take the extra tech advantage? Why reduce your science funding because you can "make it up" by getting a free tech? Get the free tech and keep your science funding pounding!

Short term yes, long term no IMO. Plus it's quite possible to have 100 gold per turn or more coming in with science still set to 80% or more and gold set to 0% I generally wind up with Science at 70% and Culture at 20%. I could do 80/20 but the extra gold speeds production up enough that over the long term my research is faster even though I'm spending 10% less on it.

The only time I don't turn Great People into super specialists is if I want another shrine or academy or if I get a great artist late in the game (then I save him to start a golden age).

[Drachasor]

One of the most powerful ways to leverage a tiny tech lead over an enemy is to have enough money to upgrade an army.

In a continent game on prince, for instance, I had 9 knights, various macemen, and so forth as my main force. I was slightly ahead in tech. I built 9 galleons and 9 catapults while I bee-lined for rifling and military code. Because I was willing to slow my tech down by a few turns I was able to have 9 riflemen and 9 cavalry within 3 or so turns of getting rifling. I loaded them up on the galleons (with the catapults) and quickly moved them to 3 egyptian cities. The Egyptians, though not that far behind me, had mostly macemen, longbowmen, and a few musketmen. One turn after I landed I took two cities, and had their capital in dire jeopardy.

If you wait 20 or so turns to make a sizeable force you can never do something like this without many more troops or a much bigger lead. The power of upgrading cannot be underestimated. The fact that the AI basically never has the money to upgrade makes them easier to conquer.

Additionally, in a more recent monarch game I upgraded my swordsmen to red coats (english riflemen). I now had red coats with x3 City Attack, a very vicious combination. Building upon the experience of your troops also cannot be underestimated. Also, with enough artillery and other support, you will seldom lose a unit. Getting 20 experience with a sizeable number of units is quite possible.

-Drachasor

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by Drachasor
The fact that the AI basically never has the money to upgrade makes them easier to conquer.
-Drachasor

I haven't found this. In my experience they usually upgrade quickly. I was recently attacking the Persians (on Prince) and within 2-3 turns of getting Feudalism they had 10-12 Longbows in the 3 cities I could see. They couldn't have had a merchant's windfall as we were alone on our continent.They could have rushed some, I suppose, but generally I find they upgrade so easily that I expect they get generous discounts.

[Drachasor]

Originally posted by Cort Haus


I haven't found this. In my experience they usually upgrade quickly. I was recently attacking the Persians (on Prince) and within 2-3 turns of getting Feudalism they had 10-12 Longbows in the 3 cities I could see. They couldn't have had a merchant's windfall as we were alone on our continent.They could have rushed some, I suppose, but generally I find they upgrade so easily that I expect they get generous discounts.

I don't think they generally upgrade. They seem to prefer to build new units instead. If you move quickly you can catch them before they have that many of the new unit.

-Drachasor

[Konquest02]

Something else to keep in mind... Upgrading keeps the promotions, so you do not lose any XP you have accumulated. If you've waged some war before, you can upgrade your veterans and have killer units right after discovering a tech. Now combine this with a great merchant sent in a galaxy far far away, and you've got an instant force to steamroll pretty much anyone, if planned carefully.

[joncnunn]

The primary purpose in Civ IV is unit upgrades.

The secondary purpose of cash as part of a trade deal when the AI values the tech you want more highly than the tech your including.

The 3rd purpose is with the correct late game civic (Universal Sufferage?) you can rush anything, including wonders, for cold hard cash.

Originally posted by Rancidlunchmeat
Whats the point of money?

[joncnunn]

My primary use of Great Prophet is building the Shrine.
After all religions discovered, I use the next as part of a GA.

Any future Great Prophets are likely to be helping research a religious tech.

I tend to use Great Scientists primary for Academys and secondary as part of the 2 leader GA.

I tend to use Great Enginners exclusively to add 780 shield towards the production of a great wonder.

I tend to use Great Arists exclusively to add 4K culture to a city on my borders.

I tend to use Great Merchants exclusively for trade missions.
The free one for first discovery is at an excelent time for massive upgrades of units to rifles.

[Merzbow]

Originally posted by Drachasor


I don't think they generally upgrade. They seem to prefer to build new units instead. If you move quickly you can catch them before they have that many of the new unit.

-Drachasor

Not true. I once watched a game to completion using spies placed by Worldbuilder to let me see how the AI plays. It almost always upgraded its units as soon as feasible, and seemed to get a substantial discount at it. For example, the turn after it got the prereqs for gunships, Saladin upgraded like 20 units. Given that he only had about 500 gold in the bank before this, the AI is being given a discount obviously.

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by Merzbow


Not true. I once watched a game to completion using spies placed by Worldbuilder to let me see how the AI plays. It almost always upgraded its units as soon as feasible, and seemed to get a substantial discount at it. For example, the turn after it got the prereqs for gunships, Saladin upgraded like 20 units. Given that he only had about 500 gold in the bank before this, the AI is being given a discount obviously.

That seems to back up what I observed. 20 units for 500g is almost free compared to what the human pays.

[Addled Platypus]

Originally posted by Rancidlunchmeat
Whats the point of money?

I had a prolonged war, I could not afford all the units I needed.

So I financed it with GM's

About 1,500 gold per GM

pending on length traveled,

it did seem like if you went to the same city again, not as much money...still good money