I never open my borders or share my map

[taybme]

I just thought I would post this and see what response it got...

I never open my borders, or share my map.

I play on the Prince Level and am inherently military minded. I usually take at least a -1 point hit from my relationships for the closed borders but that seems to be it. Good relationships can still be attained and Montezuma is still going to attack...

I usually have one nation that it becomes my goal to destroy (it ends up being much more fun when its not Montezuma). At some point they come grovelling to me for mercy and I can declare peace based on my terms which ends up being their map. Hopefully they had traded their map with someone else and I end up being fairly well informed.

Because I focus alot of my research on my Department of Offense I usually have Military Tradition long before everyone else and that becomes an incredibly hot commodity. If I need someone's map and I am sure I can maintain the advantage I trade it away on one turn to everyone for their map. Most everyone is willing to accept that deal.

In the end, I have a country that is black to everyone and so it takes an enormous effort to destroy my iron resources or find my uranium.

Just thought I would post this... I think its kind of funny to have a country that in the 1900's is unknown to everyone in the world.

---ohhh, i forgot to address spys, but you get the picture.

[Becephalus]

That will hamper your trade a lot especially in late game.

[stormwriter]

I don't check the diplomacy screen very often, but is there a way to see what they think of you in a rating format? Like -2, or +2? Or do you just assume that if they are annoyed, that it's -2 or something like that?

[taybme]

What I am trying to say is...it doesnt hamper trade or my realtionships. By the late game, your relationship is built on far more than just closed borders. I maintain an active trading network and if I have conquered everything I need then I am still able to establish a defensive pact with whomever.

My experience has shown that it doesnt hinder trade in any way, ESPECIALLY in the late game.

[James M]

I usually sell my map for 20gp or something. Hey, it's 20 free gold, and the AI *loves* you for it!

I also find open borders very useful; I can scout thir territory and convert cities, giving me invaluable reconaissance during war time.

TMTOWTDI, naturally.

edit: storm, hover your mouse over their name at the bottom right of the map. You can see exactlywhy they like/dislike you.

[Becephalus]

I am talking about city to city trade not diplomatic deals.

[amicus curiae]

I agree that city to city trade (as in trade routes) far outweighs any advantages of having closed borders.

[khumak]

I don't trade my maps until someone (hopefully me) has circumnavigated the globe. Once that's done I give my map to everyone for whatever they'll give me. I keep open borders with everyone most of the time because they're more likely to spread their religions to me. More Religions means more temples which means larger, more productive cities.

The only reason I could see to keep closed borders would be if I started off near some chokepoint that blocked a large area of land that I couldn't afford to settle yet. It's pretty rare for me to get that lucky. Generally by the time I've founded 6-8 cities there's no space left to put any useful cities so closed borders gains me nothing.

[taybme]

Ohhh I see what you are saying... city to city trade. I wonder why I havent noticed it affecting me? Ill take your word for it, but really I havent seen my cities hampered at all for having my borders closed. I still produce at (what I consider) appropriate levels.

I still manage to claim victory by the end. Granted I havent won a cultural or UN victory yet, but I can easily win the space race or push the military defeat by the end.

As far as not being able to trudge through other people's land so that I can attack them later, I can still trade an ally for their world map that will include my unsuspecting victim's layout.

I suppose my strategy is purely militaristic, I would have to see how it would weigh out in multi-player.

[Aileron]

Originally posted by taybme
Ohhh I see what you are saying... city to city trade. I wonder why I havent noticed it affecting me? Ill take your word for it, but really I havent seen my cities hampered at all for having my borders closed. I still produce at (what I consider) appropriate levels.

Closed should reduce city commerce, hence less gold, slower tech. If you're still way ahead and winning with closed that's great. I usually open them after 6-8 cities, as khumak said, there's no more land to take.

Originally posted by taybme
What I am trying to say is...it doesnt hamper trade or my realtionships. By the late game, your relationship is built on far more than just closed borders. I maintain an active trading network and if I have conquered everything I need then I am still able to establish a defensive pact with whomever.

You can have a defensive pact without open borders?? I thought you had to work your way up Open --> Defensive --> Permanent.