Should forests benefit in a future game patch?

[Grumbold]

If you're given a forest to settle in, you've pretty much got to chop to get some food squares. Like anything else, the real value in any game varies depending on the balance of your surroundings. At the moment the bonus may seem overpowered in a relatively easy AI game, but its going to be needed on harder levels and of course is the same for everybody in a multiplayer game.

[Drachasor]

Speaking of chopping, I don't see why there is no shield bonus for chopping down jungle. I could see it potentially being less than for a forest (though this is arguable), but there should be something.

-Drachasor

[Master-Mike]

I disagree with altering chopping. Wood was a large productive resources for most of human history.

It provided the energy, phyiscal structure to build nearly anything. How do you think the Pyramids were built, they used wood in the construction. Most settler units would use alot of wood to found there first city.

Also i play in many regular muliplayer civ iv games in the aussie group. A strategy which counters the early build worker/settler is the quick rush by a scout or warrior from another civ who sees your city is sitll lvl 1, and it is probable that your only warrior is out scouting. Now you are ripe to be destroyed, and this has happened to two of our players who were eliminated early using this tactic.

There is no need to alter chopping, there are counter strategies you can use to eploit people who use this. If you only play SP then play on the hardest settings then come back here and tell me you do not need chopping.

[Urban Ranger]

The problem is here because the game doesn't distinguish among various sources. If they group them into metal, stone, and timber, that would make chopping a lot less attractive.

I am not sure if that can be modded into the game, either.

[Drachasor]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
The problem is here because the game doesn't distinguish among various sources. If they group them into metal, stone, and timber, that would make chopping a lot less attractive.

I am not sure if that can be modded into the game, either.

It would be easier to just make chopping give you gold, to simulate the commercial benefits of the wood.

-Drachasor

[Martinus]

Originally posted by Simplicity
The problem with chopping really arises when you only have one city anyways. So, dividing the benefits by the number of cities doesn't really do much.

Well, except for OOC (which is enough of a nerf anyway), you normally don't have a chance to chop more than 2-3 tiles before founding a second city, if you are pursuing any kind of winning strategy - holding too long with founding the second city in order to get chopping benefits would be a bad decision.

[Martinus]

Originally posted by Drachasor


It would be easier to just make chopping give you gold, to simulate the commercial benefits of the wood.

-Drachasor

That's a good idea actually. This would make chopping worthwhile, but not a core strategy.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Drachasor
It would be easier to just make chopping give you gold, to simulate the commercial benefits of the wood.

That's a pretty good idea. Maybe make it a gold/shields mix?

[greggbert]

I would vote for "chopping forests doesn't produce a bonus if your city is working on a settler or worker."
Instead, the shields are applied to the next normal unit or building.

That should plug the hole and make everything work pretty much the way it does now.

[solo]

Thanks for all the replies.

I agree with those who do not want to diminish or eliminate the effects of chopping. The more choices and options that a player has, the better, I think.

I think nerfing chopping in any way would make it too much harder for payers to compete against the AI at higher difficulty levels, where it might be needed to speed up those first few workers and settlers.

Of the various ideas for increasing the benefits of keeping forests in place, I like the idea of allowing Lumbermills when Machinery is discovered, and adding to their effect when Replaceable Parts comes later on. I also like Aeson's suggestion of giving forests a another commerce when they appear along rivers, too.

As for balance, I believe that when chopping is not considered, forest tiles are balanced when compared to others, but when this unique speciality is considered, a tweak or two, as suggested above, might be what is needed to make the choice of chopping less desirable (or even automatic).

As for OCC, chopping is not very desirable within the city radius, since health benefits are very hard to accumulate when you only have one city, making every nearby forest's health contribution precious.

I have no doubt that no changes would be required for MP games, since the option exists for all players, which does not confer any advantage one way or the other, but in SP games, especially those where players compete using the same start, I would hope that something extra could be added to forests in a future patch to counter the effects of early chopping.

[Enigma_Nova]

That would be why I play as Bismarck.
Starts with Mining, Pre-req to Bronze
Expansive, so there's less need for the health bonus
Industrious, so you get more Chop for your Buck.
If Forests get buffed, I'm going with a Financial civ - Having 2 gold from a Forest/River is quite uber when you consider the +1 gold trait.

[Strudo]

Couldn't you just move the ability to chop a tech or two down the tree. Then chopping would still be available as it is now, just not an option immediately at the start of a game. Move to Iron working along with jungle cutting, or to metal casting. Even just one tech along would delay it's use by some turns, but not remove it completely.