Which is the best leader trait?

[Jonah5]

creative is my #1 choice but i can't vote for some reason, tells me page is timed out

[Dis]

aggressive is great- if you plan on being aggressive.

[EPW]

Originally posted by Blake
Kind of odd how how Banana is beating Organized and Expansive, and tied with Agressive (what? no-one love agressive?).

Someone go mod in the Banana trait NOW. It makes your capital start with 1 Banana's and your people get +1 happy and +1 health for EVERY banana resource you have. Horde the Banana's!
edit: I'm going to do this. If I can work out how.

You should join team BANANA.

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=140413

[Marid Audran]

Well, I guess I'm in the minority with "Expansive." Granaries and Harbors are always good facilities to build, and if one can do so cheaply all the better.

Plus, the health benefit is a real boon. There's nothing worse than being stuck in the medieval era with sick and unhealthy cities unable to grow without starving en masse with the population, which can really cripple a city. I'm playing a Prince game right now with Egypt and this is problematical, as the Chessire Cat would put it.

[Blake]

According to the votes, Julius Caesar ought to be the least popular Leader.

That's something to think about .

[Marid Audran]

Heh, no kidding. And Brutus today would be pardoned by the president. Maybe on the last day in office, ala Clinton.

I think Caesar has very fine traits. Organized is great when waging a war with a fellow civ, particularly on the same continent. Then one can run high-cost civics like Police State, Vassalage, Organized Religion/Theocracy and wage a war far more cost-efficiently. And war is a fact of life in an average civ's lifespan, with the inevitable "philosophical differences" arising from divergent civics/faiths. And I've already said what I think of "Expansive."

In fact, I think I'll try out Caesar next game.

[Martinus]

Voted "Creative" but I think there is no single "best" trait, it just boils down to personal preferences.

Aggressive is possibly the trait I appreciate the least, due to the fact that I like more "aggressive" cultural and scientific tactics, than military tactics. Still, in the right hands it can be a great boon.

Creative is my favourite, as it essentially softens the negative effects of missing out on Stonehenge and an early religion (I usually play MP games, with reduced number of religions, so it happens more often than not), and if you also get those, your borders expand very quickly. In short, it is a sort of a "lazy" trait, which allows me to comfortably concentrate on some other things.

Expansive is one of those traits that work better in some combination and worse in others. Coupled with Financial (for cottage-heavy tactics) and Philosophical (for production and specialist/gpp-heavy tactics) it is awesome, though.

Financial is a very powerful trait, as someone said the "Psilons" of Civ4. Still, it is not among my top 3 favourites, as it is rather "bland" concerning the tactics you can use.

Industrious is one of my three favourite traits, since I am a builder, however it is not as good as it is hyped to be - when playing against living opponents in MP, you will often find yourself beaten to some wonders, since humans, unlike the AI, know some wonder beeline tactics which allow them to be less predictable. I have been in games where an industrious player didn't build a single wonder - which effectively meant his trait brought no benefit whatsoever (which is why Industrious, unlike say Expansive, Creative or Financial, is tricky).

Organized - never played an organized civ, but I suppose it is great for waging war (many expensive civics needed then) and for cash. Washington combo must be the best for being rich.

Philosophical - is my third favourite trait (after Creative and Industrious) and one of the most tricky. Even more so than Industrious it is very situational - if you do not manage to build any wonder and are harassed by enemies in early game, not allowing your cities to grow to a significant level, then it is basically useless - when you have no specialists and no wonders, you do not get gpp at all and double 0 is still 0. On the other hand, some of my most spectacular victories were with Frederick and Peter, thanks to some of my cities becoming the true GP factories.

Spiritual is also a widely underappreciated trait - I don't use it myself, since I prefer Louis, Frederick, Peter and Catherine, however I have seen people doing wonderful things with it - it is also extremely useful in a Quick game, where every turn of Anarchy counts.

All in all, I think Firaxis managed to balance the traits pretty well.

[Martinus]

Originally posted by Blake
Kind of odd how how Banana is beating Organized and Expansive, and tied with Agressive (what? no-one love agressive?).

Someone go mod in the Banana trait NOW. It makes your capital start with 1 Banana's and your people get +1 happy and +1 health for EVERY banana resource you have. Horde the Banana's!
edit: I'm going to do this. If I can work out how.

There should be more traits.

E.g. a civ like Alabama should start with Redneck and Creationist.

Redneck - -2 culture from each city, +1 happy face from cow, sheep, pig and horse resource. Starting tech: Animal Husbandry.

Creationist - half cost of missionaries, can't research Scientific Method.

The UU would be a militiaman, available with the invention of Gunpowder and Constitution, doesn't become obsolete.

[sabrewolf]

Originally posted by Martinus
Redneck - -2 culture from each city, +1 happy face from cow, sheep, pig and horse resource. Starting tech: Animal Husbandry.

more like:
- no culture possible until the world wonder "C-quality TV series".
- assimilation rate (aka cultural conversion) high because ignorance spreads.
- higher growth rate for small cities (due to brothers and sister procreating )
- rifling comes at low cost

Creationist - half cost of missionaries, can't research Scientific Method.

- again, ignorance spreads like wildfire. so high "natural" spread.
- a civ automatically converts to this "state religion" if libraries and universities are not built soon enough.
- all research possible, but all scientific techs take 400 years to reap effects (symbolises the pope taking that long to admin that the earth indeed is spheric)
- great scientists cannot be created, instead great prophets appear more frequent.


additionally there should be a new civic called "nationalist propaganda" which requires mass media, demagogy, populism and nationalism. it automatically gives you -6 in international diplomacy and culture is reduced, but:
- the civ's population "believes" they have free speech and free press (--> happiness)
- war weariness is actually converted into war happiness
- approval rates go up with failure
- the bigger the military superiority, the more effective the civic is



ps: sorry 'bout my cynicism

[Martinus]

There should definitely be a happiness bonus for having farm animals in the neighbourhood, if you catch my drift.

[kptb]

Originally posted by sabrewolf


- all research possible, but all scientific techs take 400 years to reap effects (symbolises the pope taking that long to admin that the earth indeed is spheric)

Actually, the pope came out against creationism as a science last week. Benedict said that science should remain science and religion should remain religion.

Originally posted by sabrewolf

additionally there should be a new civic called "nationalist propaganda" which requires mass media, demagogy, populism and nationalism. it automatically gives you -6 in international diplomacy and culture is reduced, but:
- the civ's population "believes" they have free speech and free press (--> happiness)
- war weariness is actually converted into war happiness
- approval rates go up with failure
- the bigger the military superiority, the more effective the civic is



ps: sorry 'bout my cynicism

We also need to add to capitalism:
- you may pay money to buy mercenaries from other counttries


Add to the UN:
- vote to declare war on one particular country.

Add:
- Any state religion may declare a crusade and all civss with the same state religion as the crusader follow (until liberalism is discovered) and all civs with the same religion as the recipient of the crusade will aid in the defense. If the holy city is razed the religion ceases to exist.

[LordShiva]

Originally posted by Martinus
There should definitely be a happiness bonus for having farm animals in the neighbourhood, if you catch my drift.

Maybe if New Zealand gets its own civ, this can be its bonus

[Handel]

Philosophical is good early in the game. You get very quickly 2 even 3 GP. But soon the number of turns you have to wait for a new GP increases very much, even with the philosophical bonus AND (which is more important) the GP become relatively week. They cannot build a whole wonder and they cannot research a whole invention. So the Philosophical is good in the first half of the game and next to useless in the second.

[Handel]

Originally posted by Martinus
Voted "Creative" but I think there is no single "best" trait, it just boils down to personal preferences.

Creative is my favourite, as it essentially softens the negative effects of missing out on Stonehenge and an early religion (I usually play MP games, with reduced number of religions, so it happens more often than not), and if you also get those, your borders expand very quickly. In short, it is a sort of a "lazy" trait, which allows me to comfortably concentrate on some other things.

I played a lot with creative leader and it is completely useless after the first third of the game. Providing you play longer games, of course. But at duel maps it is probably priceless with his quick borders expansion and the quick defence bonus.

[Martinus]

See, that's a matter of personal preference. I find Phi/Cre to be the most powerful combo in game. People who normally decry some aspects of the game as completely useless do not know the game too well in my experience.