Three Gorges Dam in Epic games.

[Blake]

Wonder if people think the Dam is worth building in epic games. I usually look at the 30+ turn's to complete, and say "Screw this" and build individuals hydros and nukes everywhere. Or I grab fission much earlier and do blanket nukes.

It's not about the total cost, but the sheer number of turns required. Waiting for the Dam would leave cities without power for an additional 15-25 turns, and there are usually other more important wonders that take priority for the real hammer powerhouse cities.

Do you think it would be better moved a tech earlier?

[Lemmy]

Yep, like the Eiffel Tower, that gives Broadcast Towers before you can actually build them. It's actually a pretty good method of making these type of wonders worth building.

[Sarxis]

I had that experience with the dam too - took so long, so late in the game, I wonder why I even bothered.

[Makahlua]

I usually hold back a GE (or two, if I'm lucky) -specifically- for the 3Gorges, especially on Panagea or maps where I'm on a large continent. Often, I've just gotten through my round of factory building post-Assembly Line, and *poof*! There's a nice edge on my production vs the AI

I wouldn't mind it a tech earlier though, I always have to go for Plastics directly after AL, or a close AI might build it. And I have to wait on other useful techs (like say, Biology..)

[Timmer]

I usually get fusion pretty close to when I'm
able to build the Dam, and I'm usually first to
research it, so I get an instant GE to use on
it.

It's very nice !

[Drachasor]

A great engineer can speed things up. Also, making a power plant in the city producing the dam (hydro perhaps) can also make things go quicker. You can also rush the dam partway through.

Lastly, when they fix iron works it would probably be wise to build the ironworks* in a city that can produce the dam. That would also greatly speed things up.

It might be wise to build a few power plants in other cities while you wait--does anyone know how to get rid of buildings? In a continents game though, the dam is immensely useful. It can power 30+ cities with ease on a standard map, sometimes more.

-Drachasor

*The text of ironworks doesn't say anything about iron or coal needing to be within the city radius. So when the patch comes it should work in any city so long as you have access to those resources.

[Utwig]

Build a powerplant before 3Gorges in order to speed up building. Also reduce science and save up cash while building to rush it.

[Blake]

Rushbuying is a good point. ~5 turns of 0 research to pay for power in all cities... seems like a good deal.

[DeepO]

It's all about size, and about denial to other civs... even after your production powerhouses build hydros, the dam is a valid option in many games (including Epic ones).

It should scale to Epic: as you need more hammers for anything, you're not getting the power any sooner. Well actually, you get the power sooner by going for hydros, but you also need more time to get the same benefit as in normal games. If you can show that the dam does not scale to Epic, I certainly would be interested in seeing that reasoning.

DeepO

[Blake]

The epic thing is probably pyschological. But it is true the longer something takes, the less significant it becomes. I'm usually on the warpath in the end game and would like to get the production boosts in my cities and get back to building units and moving them to the frontlines.

Also, in Epic games the OTHER wonders are much more significant investments. Sure, it's still relative, but all the end game wonders tie production for a long time. If it was only about 3gorges vs individual powerplants it would be easier.
But it's about 3gorges vs OTHER wonders, and if you don't make 3gorges a top priority you might lose it alltogether, then not only have you wasted the city build time, you've lost a lot of power-time in all other cities, you could have started building powerplants right away.

So what I'm saying, is that since I can get EXACTLY the same bonuses as the 3gorges dam in another, less risky way I'm usually going to be better off sinking resources into other wonders that *cannot* be replaced, like Pentagon.

It's not like powerplants have upkeep. It's 9X production in one city for 3gorges, vs X production in N cities for individual powerplants.

Furthermore, the "one city" is a city with a valuable production queue, most of the N cities don't really have much of importance to build.

I've pretty much concluded it's not worth building 3gorges, but it might be worth rushing.

[DeepO]

Blake, I can understand your reasoning that the dam does not fit your play style (or at least buildin it), but still I don't see how Epic would make this worse. The effects aren't inhanced: If you build a hydro in a city, you gain e.g. 1 tank before 3 gorges copletes on Normal game. That should be exactly the same number as the same city, on the same map, in the same situation but on Epic. If it is not, something is wrong with the balance, and we're not aware of it...

Oh, and your strategy heavily depends on your playstyle. In my style, I find that I can't turn down research for 4 turns to rush anything, and that I can afford the production of a wonder build city (which won't build units anyway). You are focussed on production, I'm more focused at tech at that point in the game.

DeepO

[Blake]

I turn off spaceship victory. Too cheesey. That means I usually conquer until I win "diplomatic" or domination.

I said the epic thing is probably pyschological, altough conquest based victories DO happen faster on epic. (worth noting I ONLY play Epic, so don't get TOO stuck on epic vs normal).

The thing is, my Wonder build cities (I usually have 2-3) are a very scarse resource, one will be building Pentagon, another Broadway, another UN...

And it's questionable if I actually have more than 9 cities that would truly benefit from power in any sense moreso than "nothing better to build".

PS. By rush I also meant with Great Engineer helping. I can see the merit of rushing the 3gorges quickly then using the "free" power to speed the construction of other wonders.

[cal_01]

Hmm. For my Prince game, a Great Engineer didn't complete the 3G; it only finished about half of it. :? It didn't really matter though, since my city got to the point where it could practically finish most wonders by 3-5 turns.

[DeepO]

Originally posted by Blake
I turn off spaceship victory. Too cheesey. That means I usually conquer until I win "diplomatic" or domination.

Spaceship in itself is not so much of a goal, it is a timer. If you play long enough, you can nearly always conquer the AIs before 2050. However, doing so before one of them launches the SS is something else...

PS. By rush I also meant with Great Engineer helping. I can see the merit of rushing the 3gorges quickly then using the "free" power to speed the construction of other wonders.

Sure, I read it like that. I tend to save GEs for the dam too.

And yes, you normally need 2 GEs to complete, it's very expensive. It gives you a lot too, it has to be expensive.

DeepO

[khumak]

The way I see it 3 Gorges isn't worth it for your core cities but if you're on a large continent that you plan on conquering late in the game then it's pretty nice to be able to conquer those cities and buy a factories as soon as the revolt ends for a 100% production boost. I generally wind up building power plants in my most productive cities first including the one that eventually builds 3 Gorges.