Interview with head of quality assurance at Firaxis

[yin26]

My advice on this one is to make your judgement when this patch comes out. Better yet, I'll push a little harder and say by the second patch, you'll pretty much know what Firaxis' priorities are. True, the game was released with issues. Now let's see the Firaxis response.

Patches, after all, will be free to you (unless you are hurting to get on the Internet and download, of course).

In the meantime, please participate in the threads here giving ideas to Firaxis and what to address in the patches and X-packs. You might be surprised!

[erichb]

Every company thinking like this is dead

The industry is still making bucketloads of money. And that is how the industry thinks about it. So, I would have to disagree with your statement.

I'm not saying the OP doesn't have a legitimate reason to rant. I'm just pointing out that this particular product is no different than anything else the industry puts out, and that is not intended as a justification for shipping bugs, it is simply a statement of fact.

[Gunter]

IMO it's too early to hardly complain because a patch is underway.

If they will support the game with 2-3 patches within 2-3 months I believe Civ IV will reach a very good level.

After the release of the first patch I will check the FIX list file and I'll decide if waiting for the second patch or buy civ IV.

Gunter

[marvinkosh]

Debugging a game is hard work, there's no doubt about that. Look at it this way, if a regular human can make a mistake when reducing a mathematical equation, coming up with an impossible result, then it is certainly possible for something similar to slip into code.

Of course, with a complex computer program, such errors can go unnoticed because they are not fatal to execution, only to the integrity of the data that the program is manipulating.

[LzPrst]

Nuke'em! If you feel that strongly that you've been ripped off, nuke them.

Seriously though, gamers are idiots. they get what they are willing to put up with. and at the moment buggy as anthill releases is what we are willing to pay for. Personally I consider civ4 to be a disappointment. I find it dull and dreary and it lacks the certain something that made teh first 2 games so addictive. I found the 3rd version also lacking and the expansion pack policy unethical. I expected a change in attitude and a great game, but I didnt get it. Not just am I talking about bugs here, but also things that clearly indicate an unfinished game. I have ranted specifically what a hundred times over.

Point is, until gamers get organized and start making demands, they will get screwed by gaming companies. If I'm dumb enough to fall for the marketing and pay for the game, then I deserve to lose my money. Hopefully I will have learned my lesson till next time.

Also, computer games are becoming less interesting not more. Maybe we have come to expect too much but I found far more joy in old games than I do in most new ones. Most new games will bore me after a few weeks, some even less, but I could play "the old games" for years. Maybe I've come to demand more, or maybe the industry give less, but I still find more joy in digging out the classics than playing new games. Either way, I've got better things to do...

[Tiberius]

Originally posted by erichb

The industry is still making bucketloads of money. And that is how the industry thinks about it. So, I would have to disagree with your statement.

I'm not saying the OP doesn't have a legitimate reason to rant. I'm just pointing out that this particular product is no different than anything else the industry puts out, and that is not intended as a justification for shipping bugs, it is simply a statement of fact.

The industry may be making bucketloads of money, but I believe the companies who don't care about their customers and simply ship ****ty products will sooner or later disappear.

From what I've seen so far Firaxis did care about their clients and tried to patch the products and make them as good as possible. I don't know how many people would have bought civ4 if Firaxis hadn't continously patched civ3. I have no reasons to believe that they won't do the same with civ4.

On the other hand, I find it sad that people who complain about the quality of a product are attacked for this very simple fact. This shows that we, as gamers, accept how the industry works and are happy when a company is "not as bad" as the others. This is not very good for the future of gaming. IMHO.

[vee4473]

Originally posted by LzPrst


Also, computer games are becoming less interesting not more. Maybe we have come to expect too much but I found far more joy in old games than I do in most new ones. Most new games will bore me after a few weeks, some even less, but I could play "the old games" for years. Maybe I've come to demand more, or maybe the industry give less, but I still find more joy in digging out the classics than playing new games. Either way, I've got better things to do...

I love this post. I agree to a point. I find civ4 fun, but perhaps because I am grasping for something and have convinced myself that Civ 4 dangles it.

I think older games have such dear places in our hearts because they were, in many cases, the first of their kind. The first time we have seen such ideas on a screen etc...

Modern games, with rare exception, seem to grab the coat tails of said games and coast as far as they can with minimal new ideas.

By the way, I think there are countless older games that could and would benefit from a modern re-interpretation.

After all that thought, Civ4 is fun to me.

[vee4473]

Originally posted by Tiberius




On the other hand, I find it sad that people who complain about the quality of a product are attacked for this very simple fact. This shows that we, as gamers, accept how the industry works and are happy when a company is "not as bad" as the others. This is not very good for the future of gaming. IMHO.

another great post.

Very sad. I keep saying that I am enjoying the game ALOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But when those who complain get blindsided it is disturbing.

Although, I agree that some complainers can be very abrasive in their comments.

Bottom line: Accepting industry standards is not a way to excellence.

[erichb]

From what I've seen so far Firaxis did care about their clients and tried to patch the products and make them as good as possible. I don't know how many people would have bought civ4 if Firaxis hadn't continously patched civ3. I have no reasons to believe that they won't do the same with civ4.

I would be willing to bet that every member of the Dev team from Sid Meier on down to the lowliest tester does care, and wants the patches for just that reason. But in the final equation it's not that "wanting it to happen" that makes it happen. It is a decision made by the Publisher, or whoever is going to pay the dev team to make a patch and test it whether or not it happens. As I mentioned before, this game will have a long retail life and I'm sure they want to sell not only some expansion packs but somewhere down the line they'll want to do Civ 5, so it makes financial sense to patch it now and throughout the life of the product. That's why we'll see patches for it.

This shows that we, as gamers, accept how the industry works and are happy when a company is "not as bad" as the others.

What makes you think this kind of behavior is "gamer" specific?

Ever ask people why they voted the way they did? A lot of the time it boils down to "he's not as creepy\evil\amoral as the other guy".

On the whole, it is unfortunate, but that's the way it is.

On the other hand, I find it sad that people who complain about the quality of a product are attacked for this very simple fact.

That is also unfortunate.

[Tiberius]

You don't seem to be a born optimistic. Or this cynicism comes in time?

Mostly you are right, although I don't think that the devil is so black as you paint him

[andy_ktoi]

The problem lies with the fact that we (the customer) continue to part with our money expecting the product to work, just as we would with any other kind of consumer product.

The industry knows fine well they can save time and money releasing beta versions of games, and letting us poor souls sort the problems out for them.

Thing is, I'm getting sick of buying shoddy products, and it's getting to a stage now that I won't buy a game if I've had problems in the past.

That's our rights as consumers. Don't buy products from that company/developer in the future, if you've had duff stuff in the past. (Future madden and motogp games are already scrubbed off my list.)

If only more people would do the same they'd damn well make sure it worked before it shipped. I won't be buying any civ 4 add ons/expansions, I'm sick of firaxis.

I see people talking about that they'd be first to buy civ 5 when it comes out. That kind of idiocy is why the customer gets screwed over in the first place.

The only power we have is in our wallets.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Tiberius
On the other hand, I find it sad that people who complain about the quality of a product are attacked for this very simple fact. This shows that we, as gamers, accept how the industry works and are happy when a company is "not as bad" as the others. This is not very good for the future of gaming. IMHO.

This very much depends on whether or not the complaints are valid, accurate, and in what manner they are presented.

A lot of the problems people are having with Civ4 is are hardware issues that, frankly, are on their machine, not the software. And we have to keep in mind that testing on every feasible computer system is simply impossible.

When people engage in such hysterical hyperbole as "this game is broken!" or "network play doesn't work," it's just not helpful, because neither is true. People need to stop making stupid assumptions that because they and a minority of others have problems, it means the everybody does.

People have legitimate gripes, and that's fine. It's the unfair ones that deserve to be challenged vigorously.

[erichb]

You don't seem to be a born optimistic. Or this cynicism comes in time?

Lol. You'd be surprised. I'm actually something of an idealist but that has been tempered over time by my experience as a realist.

And actually, that cynicism servers me very well in a professional capacity; that's why I'm in QA management.

[vee4473]

I think that this debate has underscored the importance of demos.

I have always been an advocate of them. I understand the counter that demos suck resources from devs, but in this day and age when pooter hardware is vital to game performance, game demos are more vital ever.

It is no longer an argument of "risk having a gamer not like the game demo itself" as it is " just see if your system can play it enjoyably without upgrades".

This goes against companies that offer games needing certain hardware specs, but at least if you download a demo, you can honestly determine if you can play and enjoy it, or if you need to upgrade for an enjoyable experience.

[LordShiva]

Originally posted by Tiberius
On the other hand, I find it sad that people who complain about the quality of a product are attacked for this very simple fact.

I think some of this has to do with VetLegion's point, which I find more and more convincing. So many people whose opinions are highly respected by the community put in a lot of sweat to get the game to where it is - to us, a very good game; to them, an undoubtedly great game. The perhaps slightly personal umbrage that some of them might take with complaint posts rubs off on the rest of the community, leading to the less tactful attacks by the less respected.


:LordShiva braces himself: