Funny game play fix in patch

[Tartan Spartan]

The original horses used to be tiny, think charging on a shetland pony whilst wearing armour!

Earliest chariots used to be pulled by cows! not the fastest weapon of war you'll grant! More like a battlefield taxi.

I think the change is probably for the best in realism terms as it took a long time for selective breeding to create horses of sufficient stature for warfare. Would definately also argue for the hamster/guniea pig resource, pre-requisite for "pet shop" improvement and hamster cataphracts or perhaps a humble food bonus. IIRC there used to be a ancestor of the guinea pig grew to the size of a horse or even rhino. Charge!!!

[Bhruic]

Originally posted by Fried-Psitalon
I find it amusing that people insist horses should be visible because you can see them. Imagine if every animal in the world was on the screen. You'd be overrun with gophers, squirrels, dogs, cats, fruit bats, blue jays....

The reason that horses aren't visible before animal husbandry is because they're just another random animal - in this case, one you can't even catch - that isn't worth noting. It's only after animal husbandry that someone figures out these are noteworthy.

Where of course you can catch beavers, deer, etc just fine.

Look, it's fine as a gameplay balance issue. But these inane attempts to "justify" it are just silly.

I am, however, curious as to why they didn't do the same for Elephants. Seems to be the only unit based resource that you can see pre-tech.

Bh

[TheHateMale]

Originally posted by Tartan Spartan
Earliest chariots used to be pulled by cows! not the fastest weapon of war you'll grant! More like a battlefield taxi.

If you replace the people on the back with a bunch of wood and a grill, you've got a mobile meal.

[padillah]

Re: Funny game play fix in patch

Originally posted by seebs
According to Firaxis:

MANY game play improvements (ex Animal Husbandry reveals horses)

Imagine that.

"So, you know I've been trying to figure out where hamsters come from. And I pretty much figured it out."

"Yeah. I guess you said they make more hamsters. When a mommy and daddy hamster love each other very much."

"Yeah. But it turns out to have a practical implication, y'know?"

"What's that?"

"Well, you know the invisible thunder? And the thing where people would fly through the air with these round marks on them, and our grain would disappear as though something were eating it?"

"Yeah?"

"Well, there's animals that do that, and now that I know how hamsters reproduce, I can see them!"

If you really think that's all Animal Husbandry is then you've got another think comming.

Seeing two horses "boinking" in a field is a far cry from breeding hundreds of horses for use in military warfare.

For example, a single "load" of horse "juice" has enough "swimmers" to empregnate 10 - 15 females. Even if we reduce this to tech at the time you could still spread that around to three or four femals and get a much better ratio of births to deaths.

"Seeing horses" is different than seeing horses as a resource. But elephants are pretty self explanatory. You see something that big - you kill it and eat it, no questions asked. The technology to use them in warfare comes from an entirely different source.

Tom P.

[Bhruic]

Don't be silly. Early horses were just as much a food source as any other 4 legged animal would be. The fact that we've domesticated them for riding notwithstanding.

Again, this change makes sense from a game balance perspective. That's enough. There's no need to go to absurd lengths to try and justify it for the "real world".

Bh

[padillah]

Originally posted by Bhruic
Don't be silly. Early horses were just as much a food source as any other 4 legged animal would be. The fact that we've domesticated them for riding notwithstanding.

Again, this change makes sense from a game balance perspective. That's enough. There's no need to go to absurd lengths to try and justify it for the "real world".

Bh

And I'm not trying to say it isn't.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to make an "Archer kills Tank" argument. I was trying to point out that they are denying you the resource as a unit. Not that you can't "see" horses but you can't see (and, by extension, can't harness) their significance combined with the ability to create an abundance.

The same argument could be made for iron and Iron Working. It's not like iron didn't exsist before Iron Working, it's just that there were a few cups of it and nobody knew what to do with it. Once they figured out how to get a bunch and make a sword, the "industry" took off.

What I'd like to know is, if you have to discover Iron Working to find iron, and Bronze Working to find copper, what the heck are you mining for 300 - 500 years before that?

But it's horses and Animal Husbandry that doesn't make any sense? OK.

Tom P.

[padillah]

Originally posted by Hastlek
Anyway, thank god for him... not sure I could live without a bowl of clam chowder every once in a while.

-H

I got some for lunch just because you reminded me... and it's 20F here in MI.

Tom P.

[Fistandantilus]

Originally posted by Bhruic

I am, however, curious as to why they didn't do the same for Elephants. Seems to be the only unit based resource that you can see pre-tech.

Bh

Well, they could.. we do not know the exact contents of the patch yet.

Besides, Elephants provide ivory in the game, which is a luxury. So with the rule of thumb

Unit based resource -> not visible until tech
Luxury/food resource -> always visible

elephants will be an exception nevertheless, wichever way they choose to follow.

[Bill3000]

You know, once you think about it, shouldn't oil count as a luxury resource?

[Finarfin]

Actually, oil should be an automatic trigger for an invasion by bigger, more powerful nations.

[padillah]

Originally posted by Finarfin
Actually, oil should be an automatic trigger for an invasion by bigger, more powerful nations.

But if nukes have been discovered then the relationship to other countries doesn't go down... just the relationship to your own. hehe

Tom P.

[Finarfin]

And if nukes haven't been discovered in the oil country then you get new partisans every turn to kick the invaders out.

[Bill3000]

Partisans would be an excellent addition. Although it's hard enough to invade a country and stabalize the revolting captured cities as it is...