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  • #16
    The gaming industry as a whole is allowing the competitive nature of the market to bite into the quality of their products. Games are released unfinished because the longer they stay in production the more they cost to make, and even when they do hit the shelves there's no guarantee they will shift and make money.

    With very few exceptions, publishers of games tend not to admit that there is a quality problem. In a sense you can see their side, if they say up front there's something wrong then they're shooting themselves in the foot - nobody will buy the game until it's fixed.

    However, there comes a certain point where if you compromise on quality (by that I mean the quality of the game functioning on a typical entry-level gaming PC, not the actual quality of the game's content or playability) you run the risk of damaging your reputation as a software publisher, and thereby diminishing current and future sales.

    Of course this is a vicious circle because no matter how good your quality assurance is, the pressure to get the product to market will circumvent it. In fact, in a concession to this 'sell now, patch later' policy which is becoming increasingly popular with publishers and increasingly unpopular with gamers, I'll wager that games are now designed to be rushed. After all, what's the good of telling the programmers to get the game ready to be pressed and distributed if it takes six weeks to get that done assuming no hitches? You might as well say to them to take as much time as they need to get everything straightened out, if the game doesn't hit the shelves at the right time of year well, it wasn't meant to be

    Of course, if I had some real evidence of this 'designed to be rushed' ethos I would tell you, but mostly it's just speculation on my part. I like what's been done with Civ IV content-wise, love playing it in fact, but this constant cutting of corners is going to one day spawn another MoO3.
    O'Neill: I'm telling you Teal'c, if we don't find a way out of this soon, I'm gonna lose it.

    Lose it. It means, Go crazy. Nuts. Insane. Bonzo. No longer in possession of one's faculties. Three fries short of a Happy Meal. WACKO!

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    • #17
      Grab a random game, go on their forums during the first week of release, and notice that their Support section is almost ALWAYS filled with people who can't get it to run.

      Regardless, best I can tell, the widespread problems seem to be associated with new video drivers. My guess is that it was playtested on older drivers, and the new drivers screwed them up. It's not surprising that something like this could happen, really. The funny thing is, had you waited a few weeks you never would've known it. You would've grabbed the patch, and the game would've likely worked like a charm the first time you played it.

      As far as anybody who thinks this type of thing is unacceptable, I'll grant you that it's annoying. But really, in the same manner, had you waited a few weeks before purchasing this game, or any other, you likely wouldn't have had a complaint. No biggie. Just wait it out, and everything will be fine in short order, I'm sure.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by vannibombonato


        My first pc was a 386...and i just almost never seen such a piece of crap.
        Every game has bugs...but just a few manage to completely not work for such many people and configurations.
        This game don't have a problem with a single chipset, videocard, or O.S.
        This game has problems with personal computers in itself...maybe it works good on macs.

        At least in my small 10 years experience with PCs.
        My first computer was an Odyssey almost thirty years ago, and I've apparently had a much different experience than you. I run into this sort of thing all the time.

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        • #19
          Actually, I did run into problems with drivers. It didn't exactly help that over on the official Civ site, the latest drivers available were recommended to help remedy problems with ATI cards. Soon as I came here and saw some help topics describing the exact same problems, I rolled them back a bit, to drivers a year old, and it worked fine.

          Quite why there wasn't a little disclaimer saying that updating drivers may not actually improve performance, is beyond me.
          O'Neill: I'm telling you Teal'c, if we don't find a way out of this soon, I'm gonna lose it.

          Lose it. It means, Go crazy. Nuts. Insane. Bonzo. No longer in possession of one's faculties. Three fries short of a Happy Meal. WACKO!

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Repairman_Jack
            I'll grant you that it's annoying. But really, in the same manner, had you waited a few weeks before purchasing this game, or any other, you likely wouldn't have had a complaint. No biggie. Just wait it out, and everything will be fine in short order, I'm sure.
            Yes, this is a good point. And I would actually go as far as to say that in such a hugely diverse market, the most effective way to do the game testing is to indeed use the customer base as the last testers. I don't really mind this being done - the situation is that much complex. The problem is that it's not called what it is - that leads to all sorts of problems.

            For example, I really wouldn't know when to actually buy the game, as all the marketing goes to the initial release. I may even get frustrated at this and never buy the game. There should be an early presold game version available for those that want to get the game as soon as possible and take part in testing it, and marketing should start when the game is considered to be working. The porblem is of course that this does not fit the current model - people seem to want big releases. Also there are of course logistic problems, such as the patch completing the game would also need to be distributed from the stores with the game.

            There should also need to be a possibility to test the game on your configuration before purchase. At least here in Finland situation with returning non-working games to the store is not good as long as the media game was delivered on is not damaged. And besides, buying a game to test it, and returning it to the store is not a very smooth way of testing if something works. Maybe there could be a separate technical configuration test program available from the internet (and maybe from stores as well), that would probably eliminate most of the problems. A shareware system like they had with Doom would also work very good for testing.

            One problem is also the situation we have here, that customers don't really know if the game is acutally supposed to work for them, and whether their problem is going to be fixed or not. I don't know why this is - I really don't. I actually see talking with the customers as very good marketing and PR that leads to strong relationships with the customer base. And that only leads to more sales, especially with future releases. Well, maybe that's why I'm not in game marketing. Or maybe everyone in game marketing is just lost in this huge sea of corporate bull**** that's spreading eveywhere like the Black Death. Or maybe people are so afraid of customers gathering into a mob yelling "sue! sue!", that they really cannot say much anything, even if they want to. Fixing that would of course need a culture change much larger than the gaming industry.

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            • #21
              I have played computer games when you only could get a patch by mailing it to the buyer of the game.

              Through snail mail!

              And it did not happen so quickly but months later!

              So for all you people who can not play it --- remember a lot of people really do not think you should be playing a computer game -- at all!

              If it keeps up, I guess you type of people can end up staring at your computer for eons, since you appear to be always thinking from what part sits in your chair.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Raion
                I have played computer games when you only could get a patch by mailing it to the buyer of the game.

                Through snail mail!
                Oh dear me, many people have lived in a time when there wasn't even computers. Actually some have lived in a time when there wasn't even technology - they had to dig through a rock without machinery. Using their bare hands!

                I'm not living in that time, lucky me. You know, it's a fundamental assumption in any converstion that the fact that things have been worse or different does not negate how things are now, or which direction they are going to.

                (Besides, at those times things were a lot different. The situations aren't really comparable anyway.)

                So for all you people who can not play it --- remember a lot of people really do not think you should be playing a computer game -- at all!

                If it keeps up, I guess you type of people can end up staring at your computer for eons, since you appear to be always thinking from what part sits in your chair.
                (quoted for simple hilariousness)

                Um... what? No, seriously, you lost me there. So because we cannot play the game on our computers, we don't know how to think? Um, yeah... ok, that must be it. Thanks, now I know where the problem is.

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                • #23
                  When I was a kid, I had to walk 6 miles through the snow, uphill both ways to get to play my computer games.

                  Except it wasnt on a computer, it was on an abacus. No frilly useless 3D accelerated graphics! No Sir!

                  Then it all changed, the slide rule was invented. None of my Abacus games would run anymore. I was so pissed.

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                  • #24
                    Bwa hah hah!

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                    • #25
                      Note to all the people who talk about the "good ole days" when patches had to be mailed to them:

                      Welcome to the 21st Century.

                      In this magical era, we have the internet. Most kids today don't even know what an IRQ or a dip switch is, because they don't need to. Sure, there was a time when it was acceptable to have to write a batch file, or create a boot disk, or edit some obscure line in an equally obscure config file just to get your new game running, but those times have passed. So get with the program, Gramps.

                      /sarcasm

                      Sorry, had to do it. And yes, I've had patches snail mailed to me too but such nonsense is for the history books. Most of the problems you guys talk about were largely (though obviously not completely) solved with Win95. God I feel dirty just saying that.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by vannibombonato
                        My first pc was a 386...and i just almost never seen such a piece of crap.
                        Every game has bugs...but just a few manage to completely not work for such many people and configurations.
                        This game don't have a problem with a single chipset, videocard, or O.S.
                        This game has problems with personal computers in itself...maybe it works good on macs.

                        At least in my small 10 years experience with PCs.
                        Civ4 is 2000 times larger than any game you had on a 386. More code = more bugs. It will get worse as games get bigger.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Yes but as the code which is behind all the fancy bits and pieces becomes ever-larger, there are ways of viewing and verifying that code which are incredibly more helpful than in days gone by.

                          If anyone remembers the days of the rubber-key Spectrum, if you had messed up the syntax you would get a (helpful?) flashing question mark next to the bit of code that seemed to be entered wrong. Any half-decent IDE these days will do a whole lot more than that.

                          That said, that you have several orders of magnitude more code in today's games than in the games of the Spectrum's era, does mean the margin for code errors is that much greater. There's no getting away from entropy.
                          O'Neill: I'm telling you Teal'c, if we don't find a way out of this soon, I'm gonna lose it.

                          Lose it. It means, Go crazy. Nuts. Insane. Bonzo. No longer in possession of one's faculties. Three fries short of a Happy Meal. WACKO!

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                          • #28
                            I think we may reasonably assume that there have been problems in QA, given that it's been over a week since they sent the patch to the publisher.

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                            • #29
                              Not really. I've seen patches in QA for a couple weeks at a time. I still remember cursing non-stop during the last two week period. >:|

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by seebs
                                I think we may reasonably assume that there have been problems in QA, given that it's been over a week since they sent the patch to the publisher.
                                The patch was released (v1.08). Then it was pulled due to bugs. No notice of either occurance on the 2k site.

                                I assume the QA failed to find all the problems again. I'm not really surprised by that but I did think they'd try a little harder this time.

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