Hero Units and immigration

[Unspeakable Horror]

I admit to not being exactly an expert on south american history - but I cant think of 80 years where argentina could fit as this massively rich country...

Forgot about that one, it´s not true, it was an illussion created by the world market around 1880 - 1929, maybe a bit sooner but not too much since we were still somewhat divided at the time and not much later than that since the Great Depression hit us hard.

At the time Europe was favoring the industry and USA (maybe at first? I´m sure it changed later and became as powerful as UK, especially after 1st World War), South America and of course Argentina favored farming industry. The amount of money from this was huge and allowed the country to grow like never before, it was our Golden Age (1900 - 1929) we even had the first subway in South America.

The problem was that the model was completely dependant on other nations, without industry you have to buy the stuff from someone else, we bought everything from the UK and later on USA*, when the prices for primary goods dropped, the UK couldn´t produce as much manufactured goods as we required and the great depression hit the US and then the rest of the world, it killed all that.

*but USA didn´t need to buy anything from us, creating a nice deficit on our part when UK was at war during the 1st and 2nd WWs.

[Maidel]

Originally posted by Unspeakable Horror


Forgot about that one, it´s not true, it was an illussion created by the world market around 1880 - 1929, maybe a bit sooner but not too much since we were still somewhat divided at the time and not much later than that since the Great Depression hit us hard.

Thanks - I was starting to wonder if I had gone mad or something

[sabrewolf]

i forgot to mention: no offence to argentina as a country! never been there but two of my best friends love BA and the whole country, so i must be quite nice. and from what i heard pretty "european" compared to the rest of latin america.

Originally posted by Unspeakable Horror
Right, and the Aztecs are nothing compared to present day Mexico, or Brazil or... etc

iirc the aztecs survive until the spanish came and pillaged and slaughtered them. the incans died got extinct because they chopped down all the forests around them

Until 120 years ago! How dare you!?

my bad

Our low population density proves that food does not equal growth, civ4 is wrong, change it Firaxis!

and area is not all. i guess the mosquitos make the population density sink?

No great achievement!? And what about our three Nobel prizes in Medicine and some others? Drago´s doctrine? Etc?

uhm... in that case the universities of zurich alone should be in with at least 2 civs

...Perón? I think you watched too many movies

that's the madonna-chick, right? :-p

[Unspeakable Horror]

Err, sabrewolf I wasn´t being serious!
There are plenty other civs that deserve to be in a Civgame before us (except Brazil or any other American ex colony nation )

iirc the aztecs survive until the spanish came and pillaged and slaughtered them. the incans died got extinct because they chopped down all the forests around them

I think those were the people from Easter Island (Isla de Pascua) The Island is several Km away from Chilan Coast and IIRC it was inhabitated by people from Oceania, not our continent.

The Incas were conquered by the Spanish too, the name of the Conquistador was Francisco Pizarro, he arrived just in time for an Incan Civil war and used that against them
And the Incas didn´t have much influence (other than trade maybe? I don´t know much about pre hispanic times) on our current territory only the northern part IIRC.

that's the madonna-chick, right? :-p

Yes

so i[t] must be quite nice. and from what i heard pretty "european" compared to the rest of latin america.

Yes and yes

[LordShiva]

If Argentina is in then I want Hernan Cattaneo to be their leader

[XGustaX]

Re: Re: Hero Units and immigration

Originally posted by Maidel


When was this exactly?

I admit to not being exactly an expert on south american history - but I cant think of 80 years where argentina could fit as this massively rich country... During the early 19th century (after the napoleonic wars) it was barely even a country and if napoleons advsiors had managed to keep him health and fit and get him off the island it could have ended up as part of a united states of south america...

and then after much of europe repaired itself after the conflicts france, prussia (and then germany) Russia and portugal were all extremely wealthy (more so than the USA)

by the start of the 20th centry the USA was rivaling Britain as the worlds most wealthy company (and overtook it by about 1930ish, definately by 1940)

So where on earth does this 80 years fit in? There MIGHT have been 20 or so years between 1820-1840 as France and the rest of europe was recovering but thats it.

LMAO wow and ur from Britian? lol do u even no who the hell invested in Argentina? lol the British lol ur really smart trust me from 1870 or 1880's Argentina was the 2nd Richest Country in the world next to Britian. All the way to 1940's. Ur an insult to even say your from England also many English people also immigrated to Argentina so lol

[smellymummy]

I wouldnt mind to see a great general (aka hero). same standard abilities as other great people, as for its unique ability, how about automatically creating an elite army (free several mixed units)?

right now the great people are just civil, a reflection maybe of civ4's not so agressive gameplay.

[XGustaX]

Originally posted by Unspeakable Horror
Err, not really.


I don´t remember


Country or per capita? Country: no. per capita: yes.


Depends on which part of the country you are speaking about.

Thats true then again not everywhere in the US has the same Standard of living.

Was. Not anymore, it´s lower now.

I acutally was reading something the other day and it said that Argentina's food production is on par and rivials the US

[XGustaX]

Originally posted by sabrewolf
i forgot to mention: no offence to argentina as a country! never been there but two of my best friends love BA and the whole country, so i must be quite nice. and from what i heard pretty "european" compared to the rest of latin america.


iirc the aztecs survive until the spanish came and pillaged and slaughtered them. the incans died got extinct because they chopped down all the forests around them

Until 120 years ago! How dare you!?

my bad

Our low population density proves that food does not equal growth, civ4 is wrong, change it Firaxis!

and area is not all. i guess the mosquitos make the population density sink?

No great achievement!? And what about our three Nobel prizes in Medicine and some others? Drago´s doctrine? Etc?

uhm... in that case the universities of zurich alone should be in with at least 2 civs

...Perón? I think you watched too many movies

that's the madonna-chick, right? :-p

Spain never killed off all the Indians in Mexico and Peru infact thats why Mexicans and Pervians look the way they do today its called being NATIVE AMERICAN!

Yes Argentina is a beauitful country doesnt bring many tourist as its on the other side of the world. But its literally Europe away from Europe its amazing. These European countries also include though Urugauy and Chile. The reason they are so European is simple because the vast Majority of the people in these countries directly came from Europe lol.

[Drachasor]

The Incans and the Aztecs certainly have a place in the Civ games, they were the two great civilizations of the Americas when the Europeans arrived. They both were highly organized and controlled large amounts of land.

However, they couldn't compete with gunpowder technology, and that with some luck and the diseases the Europoeans brought over doomed their civilizations. In fact, this latter cause was perhaps the primary reason the Aztecs were defeated. Losing most of your population in a short period of time is absolutely devastating.

-Drachasor

PS. There are many countries that could be added, but there's no time to add the (easily) 50+ countries to every game. That's probably why the team goes with some mainstays (the USA, France, Britain, Germany, China, Japan, Greece, and Rome--important civs to most of their target demographic). The others they vary from game to game. They simply can't make everyone happy.

[sabrewolf]

Originally posted by Unspeakable Horror
Err, sabrewolf I wasn´t being serious!
There are plenty other civs that deserve to be in a Civgame before us (except Brazil or any other American ex colony nation )

so in ARG also call yourselves americans despite the US-americans "reserving" the name for themselves
my paraguayan ex always got furious about that term

I think those were the people from Easter Island (Isla de Pascua) The Island is several Km away from Chilan Coast and IIRC it was inhabitated by people from Oceania, not our continent.

The Incas were conquered by the Spanish too, the name of the Conquistador was Francisco Pizarro, he arrived just in time for an Incan Civil war and used that against them
And the Incas didn´t have much influence (other than trade maybe? I don´t know much about pre hispanic times) on our current territory only the northern part IIRC.

easter island completely annihilated themselves because they clearcut the whole island (so the new civ4 locust strategy should mean instant extinction ). but sorry about the confusal. i meant the mayans! there was an article in the "scientific american". could not find that reference, but this is similar implication from another source:

While many Mayanists agree that wars contributed to the collapse, no one thinks they were the whole story. Another factor was overexploitation of the rain-forest ecosystem, on which the Maya depended for food. University of Arizona archaeologist T. Patrick Culbert says pollen recovered from underground debris shows clearly that "there was almost no tropical forest left."

Yes and yes

oh, what a pun. iT must be nice

[sabrewolf]

Originally posted by XGustaX
Spain never killed off all the Indians in Mexico and Peru infact thats why Mexicans and Pervians look the way they do today its called being NATIVE AMERICAN!

Pervians? ... now that's a bit harsh. let's call them peruvians

i did not say all indigenous. just lots of them...

and didn't many native americans die indirectly by illnesses brought over by the european colonists or was that just in north america?

Yes Argentina is a beauitful country doesnt bring many tourist as its on the other side of the world. But its literally Europe away from Europe its amazing. These European countries also include though Urugauy and Chile. The reason they are so European is simple because the vast Majority of the people in these countries directly came from Europe lol.

it is after all quite far "off-route" from the main tourist axes (NA-caribbean-europe-eastern asia).

[Maidel]

Re: Re: Re: Hero Units and immigration

Originally posted by XGustaX
LMAO wow and ur from Britian? lol do u even no who the hell invested in Argentina? lol the British lol ur really smart trust me from 1870 or 1880's Argentina was the 2nd Richest Country in the world next to Britian. All the way to 1940's. Ur an insult to even say your from England also many English people also immigrated to Argentina so lol

My my - you are an insulting little thing arent you...

from here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentina

From 1880 to 1930 Argentina became one of the ten wealthiest nations. Conservative forces dominated Argentine politics until 1916, when their traditional rivals, the Radicals, won control of the government. The military forced Hipólito Yrigoyen from power in 1930 leading to another decade of Conservative rule.

from here - http://www.utdt.edu/congresos/semina...istory-abs.htm

Argentina was among the ten richest countries in the world until the Great Depression, with a population that was convinced that their country would continue to grow at high rates and that it was destined to be among the great powers of the world.

So looking though every single resource I have (the internet) there is a passage of time of about 40-50 years where argentina was rich, and one of the ten richest nations, but no where that ever mentioned second richest and certainly not for 80 years!

From everything I read (And there was much more that above) showed that until 1870 argentina was too busy with south america to be extremely rich, and after the crash in the twenties it never really recovered its place.


You have chosen to insult me for no reason other than to show your superiority (which in this instance is very lacking) if you would care to disprove me then please post me some links, otherwise kindly crawl back under the bridge you came from you nasty troll.

[Unspeakable Horror]

Originally posted by sabrewolf

so in ARG also call yourselves americans despite the US-americans "reserving" the name for themselves
my paraguayan ex always got furious about that term

I have nothing against that term after all that´s what we are regardless of how the US call themselves , I don´t know about the rest of the continent

I think those were the people from Easter Island (Isla de Pascua) The Island is several Km away from Chilan Coast and IIRC it was inhabitated by people from Oceania, not our continent.

The Incas were conquered by the Spanish too, the name of the Conquistador was Francisco Pizarro, he arrived just in time for an Incan Civil war and used that against them
And the Incas didn´t have much influence (other than trade maybe? I don´t know much about pre hispanic times) on our current territory only the northern part IIRC.

easter island completely annihilated themselves because they clearcut the whole island (so the new civ4 locust strategy should mean instant extinction ). but sorry about the confusal. i meant the mayans! there was an article in the "scientific american". could not find that reference, but this is similar implication from another source:

While many Mayanists agree that wars contributed to the collapse, no one thinks they were the whole story. Another factor was overexploitation of the rain-forest ecosystem, on which the Maya depended for food. University of Arizona archaeologist T. Patrick Culbert says pollen recovered from underground debris shows clearly that "there was almost no tropical forest left."

I didn´t know that

oh, what a pun. iT must be nice

Indeed

Maidel, there´s an ignore list somewhere

Pervians! Nice typo though

[Maidel]

Originally posted by Unspeakable Horror
Maidel, there´s an ignore list somewhere

OOO - I shall have to go looking for that.