Are Spies still not useful?

[Doktrjerms]

So the spies are back in Civ IV.

So I saved money all game...

And built my 4 spies.

Then I found out all I could use spies for is
1) sabotage a tile improvement
2) steal military plans
3) sabotage production

I stole military plans several times and I couldn't figure out how that information was given to me.

I want to use my spies to

1) incite a revolt
(this would be nice for border cities under greater cultural influence)

2) plant nuclear weapons

3) target specific buildings for destruction

and lots of other stuff.

I felt that previously the power of some abilities was balanced by exhorbenant gold cost and % chance to win.

Is it just me, or is the spy not really back?

ALSO, The kremlin is made obsolete by later techonologies, does that mean no more spies can be built?

I hate when the civilopedia doesn't give you enough information...

-DoktrJerms

[LzPrst]

spies shouldnt be able to blow stuff up cause it might look as if firaxis is condoning terrorism...

why is it that americans are so scared of actual human behaviour?

[LvT]

Originally posted by LzPrst
spies shouldnt be able to blow stuff up cause it might look as if firaxis is condoning terrorism...

why is it that americans are so scared of actual human behaviour?

LOL -- there should be a "Lemmings" unit

LvT


A Few Questions re Spies

Q1: How do you use a spy as a counterspy?? I had an oil well disappear over and over ... at first I thought it was a bug but then I thought "must be a spy!!" -- it was a major annoyance.

Do you just station your own spy where you think the enemy spy is at work?

Q2: How do you get a spy to sabotage improvements?? Is this capability a promotion?

Q3: If so, how do you get a spy promoted?? How do they get the XP/"victories" to earn a promotion??

[Unspeakable Horror]

Q2, just move your spy on top of the tile you want to sabotage and click the sabotage button

[Proteus_MST]

Also Q2:
But sabotages cost money, so, if your button to sabotage is greyed out you probably don´t have enough money to do it (I think it was 150 or 200 GP)

[Sava]

spies are completely useless

[Senethro]

Line of sight where you have none is use enough.

[Proteus_MST]

IMHO their main use is that they are able to spy on cities (just enter them with a spy and you see all the informations you would see if the city belonged to you )
Aside from this, the spies look really nice and have an interesting animation if you order them to sabotage a terrain improvement

[ElConejo]

Originally posted by Senethro
Line of sight where you have none is use enough.

Agreed.

Let us humbly quote the mastermind of all warfare:

"If I determine the enemy's disposition of forces while I have no preceptible form, I can concentrate my forces while the enemy is fragmented. The pinnacle of military deployment approaches the formless; if it is formless, then even the deepest spy cannot discern it nor the wise make plans against it."
-Sun Tzu "The Art of War"

[Alphard]

In the beginning I also thought... completely useless. And true.. I would like to have all the behaviour noted above. However It is VERY useful to have the sabotage tile and general 'espionage' benefits of the spy. You can see into any enemy city for free.. thats pretty cool already. And when you go to war you can unhook their strategic resources.

In my game I dissallowed air units for both Germans and Incas by just keeping unhooking their oil reserves.
Also It was quite nice to sit in their mutual border and laugh after i let them declare war on each-other.

But .. sigh.. sabotage.. would be great.. bribe also ofcourse.

[teutonic_knight]

I miss inciting a revolt. I feel if they are culturally inferior, a spy should be able to push them toward joining your civilization.

[Volstag]

I dunno. I find them quite handy for... well, spying. Roaming the countryside and checking cities definitely has its uses. It also seems like if you had the cash to pay for prolonged and indiscriminate pillaging, you could really derail the AIs progress.

[ZargonX]

I've used end-game spies quite effectively to halt enemy civs from finishing spaceship parts, thus giving me victory. Much cleaner than trying to wage a war against a more powerful opponent. I'd say that's pretty useful.

[dconner]

Another good use for spies is to tick off your opponent and goad him into declaring war on you... every little bit helps.

On something of a whim, I destroyed all three of Russia's coal mines either just before or just after they got Railroads. Slowed them down a bit, at least, I figured.

[Illuminatus]

Re: Are Spies still not useful?

Originally posted by Doktrjerms
ALSO, The kremlin is made obsolete by later techonologies, does that mean no more spies can be built?

I hate when the civilopedia doesn't give you enough information...

-DoktrJerms

Scotland Yard is the prerequisite for spies, not Kremlin.