Some thoughts on openings

[ariano_paluda]

I've owned civ4 for about a week now, and decided to play on noble difficulty because i would compete on equal turns with the AI. So far i've tried the settler first strat in most of my games, but i've also been experimenting with some other stuff:

Like starting with an industrious civ cranking out a settler, two warriors and going for masonry as my first tech. Then my cap would start building pyramids and the second city would build a worker or two. Of course if my capital wouldn't be good at building, i've also tried using city number two as my wonder city. It has worked quite a few times, and gave me access to all goverment types for the remainder of the game.

another thing i've tried, also with industrious civs, is to go straight for the metal casting tech, and get some great engineers through the forge. It helped me bag some important wonders.

Any comments??

AP

[Dr,ape]

hmmm... this would be my strategy back in Civ1 and 2... but in this game, the Pyramid takes too long to build vs. its effects are overrated. But then again, I'm still on my first game, what do I know...

[rayw69]

The Pyramids can be a very strong early wonder if it fits your playstyle and starting location. If you have access to stone, locations for 2 or more food rich cities (read: floodplains), and are not trying to win via culture, the Pyramids can be a real juggernaut.

Beeline to Code of Law so you can convert to Caste System, and go wild in the early game.

Of course, the above conditions assume that you have a worker with which to build a stone quarry, so your build order could not stay the same. As Dr, Ape noted, the Pyramids are very expensive compared to Stonehenge and the Oracle, both of which are very nice wonders in the early game. You are giving up a lot in the early game by taking the time to build them, so your playstyle better maximize the use of them. If someone builds them before you, and you've wasted a lot of turns building it, its going to be a big setback.

Even with the benefit of an industrious Civ, you're not guarateed to be the first to build it. If there is a non-industrious civ out there with stone, you're building at the same speed. If there is a competing civ with stone and is industrious, you are in trouble.


Having industrious and stone guarantees that you are, at worst, even with any other Civ in terms of bonus speed. Also, having both the industrious and stone bonuses combined guarantees that you are building the Pyramids at 100% greater speed. Having only the industrious bonus gives usually only a real speed increase of 40-45%, due to the disadvantage of rounding down when your number of base hammers is an odd number.

[Gufnork]

The standard opening for most is to get Bronze Working while training a worker, then Chop-Chop your way to victory.

[rayw69]

Originally posted by Gufnork
The standard opening for most is to get Bronze Working while training a worker, then Chop-Chop your way to victory.

I'm just making the assumption that the AI can chop to rush wonders as well. Basing this upon the fact that when I first started playing the game, I automated my workers. Those automated workers went chop crazy.

Of course, you're always going to be smarter than the AI in terms of strategic chopping, in terms of frequency and timing, so I suppose that is an inherent building advantage.

[Dog of Justice]

Originally posted by rayw69
Even with the benefit of an industrious Civ, you're not guarateed to be the first to build it. If there is a non-industrious civ out there with stone, you're building at the same speed.

This is not true. Stone is +100%, Industrious is only +50%.

I think Industrious is more useful for the cheap Forges than the wonder production bonus. (The exception would be Ind/Phi, but well, that's why there is no Ind/Phi leader.)

As for beelines, I'm currently eating my heart out after completing the Pyramids the same turn I discovered Banking... Representation/Mercantilism is quite strong if you're able to set it up (though you do really want to have one specialist-enabling building in most of your cities).

[joncnunn]

Well, starting about midgame, Ind forges combined with the natural +50% bonus pretty much makes an Industrious leader beating everyone to a tech with a wonder a shoe in to build that wonder if their capital isn't already a wonder.

But in early game, there is a Stonehedge-or-bust gambit adviable to any Industrious leader (non-creative) even without stone with most starting locations.

On building the Pyramids, on a moderate difficulty level, you probably need to be either industrious or have stone. On a high enough dificulty level, you probably need both.

The Pyramids costs so much because it's value is very long lasting, allowing the advanced govt civic choices that takes until mid game for other players to get the tech for. [I recommend Republic until you can have the techs for free speach+ free religion]