Do Gunships really have a role?

[BigWilly1974]

I realize that gunships are supposed to be tank killers, but in practice, I find the gunship to be largely useless. The fact the tank has a power rating of 28 means that even though the Gunship has an "advantage" against it as the counter-unit, the gunship's power rating of 20 starts it off at a significant disadvantage...and the combat modifier vs the tank only brings the gunship into relative parity with the tank. If the gunship had a strength of 25-28, plus the anti-tank modifier, that in my mind would make more sense. Then it really would live up to its niche role.

Is it just another unit (one I hardly ever bother with), or is there a really valid use for Gunships...?

[Quillan]

It can move farther in enemy territory than any other unit. Since you don't get to use the road movement rate in enemy territory, your units are generally only going one or two squares. The gunships move 4. That's the only thing I can really think of.

[TomVeil]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but gunships also inexplicably cannot cross water AT ALL (unless loaded into a transport), even trips of less than 4 tiles. This seems to be not only historically inaccurate but also a further weakness of a disappointing unit.
I guess the huge "plus" of gunships is that they are the upgrade for mounted units, which you should have a ton of, and which should have earned most of your promotions. So you might not build any, but the ones you have lying around will be high-powered.

[mmtt]

I think gunships can be very useful for pillaging and long range operation. Send them as fast recon units behind enemy lines and damage infrastructure, resource key points out of bombing range or threatened by fighters interception.
Fast, agile, they are really a pain to hunt down and can divert enemy assets.

[Jaybe]

It would help to understand what gunships are used for. They are NOT for holding ground, so have them strike and withdraw back to the protection of ground-holding units -- that is why they have extra movement. If you are going to leave them behind enemy lines where the enemy is of comparable tech then consider it a suicide mission: so the target must be of high value.

Base them on the front (with ample protection). Strike a target 2 tiles away, 3 if you KNOW you will be advancing with your main force. Withdraw to your main-force protection.

[MattPilot]

The fact the tank has a power rating of 28 means that even though the Gunship has an "advantage" against it as the counter-unit, the gunship's power rating of 20 starts it off at a significant disadvantage...and the combat modifier vs the tank only brings the gunship into relative parity with the tank.

Maybe my math is a little fuzzy, but 20 x 100% = 40, and not "parity with tank".

Now if you wan't to take the modern armor, thats a different story. Assuming no promotions, and the fact that Armor can't have defensive bonus', the odds are 40 vs 40.

Now lets consider that the modern armor has a 1 first strike, but the gunship has a 25% withdraw chance. Give the gunship 2 Flanking promotions (= total of 55% withdraw chance), and you got yourself an awesome unit to kill approaching armored units.

With that said, Gunships clearly are not a mass production unit. But one per frontline city sure helps.

[dschur]

Originally posted by Jaybe
Base them on the front (with ample protection). Strike a target 2 tiles away, 3 if you KNOW you will be advancing with your main force. Withdraw to your main-force protection.

I agree with this. Isn't the motto of one of the AirCav regiments "Reach out and touch somebody?" They are cheaper than your armor units, so they make an excellent abblative armor enhancement. Better to send in a couple of Gunships to weaken enemy armor, ensuring that your followup attack with armor is more successful. Much quicker to fly new gunships in to support your invasion force than to wait for heals or armor reinforcements.

Also, as mentioned it gives you something useful to do with your hordes of Cossacks or Cavalry, ESPECIALLY with existing Flanking upgrades. I love retreating gunships :-) Makes shoot-and-scoot even MORE efficient.

[BigWilly1974]

Do gunships get a 100% modifier against tanks? I thought it was around 50% which would bring both units into relative parity. Not exact, but relative.

I haven't looked at the exact modifier in a while, so I may have mis-stated, but my experience in game has lead me to believe it can't be a +100% mod.

[MattPilot]

Originally posted by BigWilly1974
Do gunships get a 100% modifier against tanks? I thought it was around 50% which would bring both units into relative parity. Not exact, but relative.

I haven't looked at the exact modifier in a while, so I may have mis-stated, but my experience in game has lead me to believe it can't be a +100% mod.

It is a 100% modifier. But only against "armored" types.


I suggest you do more research the next time you make a statement that suggest a unit is useless.

[BigWilly1974]

Last I noticed, this is an open forum. An opinion, which I stated, should be fair game. I apologize that I didn't have my math and calculations to substantiate an "opinion". If I was at home, rather than work, I *may* have taken a minute to verify.

That said, I won't stand being rebuked over it either.

[Fried-Psitalon]

It is no accident that cavalry upgrade to gunships, as their role (intended) is largely the same; fast attack, strike viciously and get out, hit and run. Unless you have overwhelming numbers of mounted troops, they are no safer exposed than any other type. That said, though, I have been known to load two transports with gunships, and unleash them at two different points on the enemy coast - it causes pure havoc, and you can usually do quite a bit of damage to infrastructure and possibly also to workers before they can deal with the situation.

If you send them streaking towards the rear of an opposing empire, where garrisons are light, you can probably even succeed in inflicting happiness penalties as minimal garrisons are forced out into combat.

Then, while units are far from their garrison points and roads are torn, you land the REAL invasion force on the coast.

Gunships are anti-tank and marauder weapons, and they are outstanding at both roles.

[khearn]

According to my combat spreadsheet, here are some possible matchups:

Gunship attacking Tank:
40(25% retreat) vs 28
Gunship wins 88.55%
Gunship retreats 2.86%
Tank wins 8.59%
Conclusion: Gunships are tank killers.

Tank attacking Gunship:
28 vs 40 (defenders can't retreat)
Tank wins 11.45%
Gunship wins 88.55%
Conclusion: Tanks shouldn't even try attacking Gunships.

Gunship attacking Marine:
20(25%retreat) vs 24(1 first strike)
Gunship wins 21.77%
Gunship retreats 19.56% (will be at 3.2 strength)
Marine wins 58.68%
Conclusion: Gunships are tank killers.

Marine attacking Gunship:
24(1 furst strike) vs 20 (defenders can't retreat)
Marine wins 78.23%
Gunship wins 21.77%
Conclusion: Don't leave your Gunships undefended!

Gunship attacking Modern Armor:
40(25%retreat) vs 40(1 first strike)
Gunship wins 43.16%
Gunship retreats 14.21% (will be at 4.0 strength)
MA wins 42.63%
Conclusion: Gunships have a 50-50 chance of winning vs dieing, and a 1 in 7 chance of retreating. It's reasonable to use them against MA.

Modern Armor attacking Gunship:
40(1 first strike) vs 40(defenders can't retreat)
MA wins 56.84%
Gunship wins 43.16% (will be at 0.8 strength)
Conclusion: MA should attack (if possible), rather than wait for a Gunship to attack it, so the Gunship can't retreat.

Gunship w/2 flanking attacks Modern Armor (as per MattPilot):
40(55% retreat) vs 40(1 first strike)
Gunship wins 43.16%
Gunship retreats 31.26% (will be at 4.0 strength)
MA wins 25.58%
Conclusion: This Gunship isn't a better tank killer, but is much more survivable if he doesn't win. Will only die 1 in 4 times. (so if you win 3 fights, dont try a fourth! )

Keith

p.s. Yes, I know that that last parenthetical comment is statistically incorrect, it's a joke!

[Sabre2th]

I can't be bothered to run and check the numbers, but they look reasonable. Nice to see at least a few people look at the numbers before crying about archers vs. tanks and similar

How detailed is that spreadsheet? I can't be bothered to make my own just yet

[MattPilot]

Any chance you could post that spreadsheet for download?

[Shr3dZ]

Wow, nice post.

Are tanks the only armored vehicle in the game? How about those Mech.Inf.? Recon unit?