Are your border open?

[Artuero]

Closed borders only seem useful if I have a blocking position. I haven't seen a lot of religious conversions from the AI which could be another reason to have closed borders.

[QuestGAV]

I found it ridiculously easy to convert an AI city plopped down in my midst at Noble level but not so much on Prince, but I've also been more conservative with Open Borders in early game situations so maybe that's why. Do you guys find it trivial to flip those cities surrounded by your own at higher levels?

[LDiCesare]

I love open borders. You get good relations from it, a warning that war is near when the other civ cancels the deal which may help relocate your armies one or 2 turns earlier, and the ability to move there yourself. The ai can use it to get around you when you are blocking an isthmus, but I prefer to let them do that because otherwise they may go to war, I may not be able to maintain the cities I'd plug there, and one or two great artists will probably take the offending city(ies) away (unless it's on an island).

[Aileron]

Originally posted by joncnunn
I love open boarders.

If a war breaks out, they get forciably relocated outside your terrority anyway.

Have you actually seen this happen?

At first I instinctively never agreed to open borders. Then I read about the trade benefits and that foreign units would be kicked out if they declared war. So I started opening borders. What does the AI do? Send troops into my territory, have a nice, long look around, then suddenly attacks and takes my least defended city.. Their units were not forciably relocated outside my territory.

I wish the game would distinguish between open trade borders and open military borders. There's a big difference IMO.

[rayw69]

Originally posted by Aileron

Have you actually seen this happen?

At first I instinctively never agreed to open borders. Then I read about the trade benefits and that foreign units would be kicked out if they declared war. So I started opening borders. What does the AI do? Send troops into my territory, have a nice, long look around, then suddenly attacks and takes my least defended city.. Their units were not forciably relocated outside my territory.

I wish the game would distinguish between open trade borders and open military borders. There's a big difference IMO.

Opposing civs would just spy on you with non-military units if there was a distinction between military and non-military units with regards to borders, so it would not make a difference.

Creating a "open trade borders only" option would be a bad thing from a gameplay perspective. There would be no possible negative ramifications to a free trade border, which makes the decision an uninteresting one. If the choice is always to do the same thing, then why have it at all? Better just to make open trade borders mandatory, rather than offering it as a choice.

Relocation of units happens every time. So either you are remembering what occured incorrectly, or one of two things happened in your scenario. Either you had a coastal city that was attacked amphibiously, or your landlocked city was within one tile or less of the enemy's cultural border.

If you city is on the coast, ships often have the movement range to enter from outside your cultural borders and next to your coastline in a single turn. Then units can attack from the ship.

If your city is landlocked, and the actual city tile is touching an opposing Civs borders, you can be attacked that same turn by any units. If this city has a 1 tile buffer from another Civs border, the opposing Civ can attack that turn with units that have 2 moves. Of course, this would also apply if a city's cultural borders were 1 tile away from neutral territory as well.

A general rule with regards to open borders: If your defenses are weak enough to the point where the AI's new knowledge of your weakness is more likely to spark a war than the diplomatic penalty associated with refusing open borders, keep your borders closed.

[Proteus_MST]

Originally posted by rayw69

If you city is on the coast, ships often have the movement range to enter from outside your cultural borders and next to your coastline in a single turn. Then units can attack from the ship.

Yep, that´s an observation I also made.
Often, the AI has it´s ship just outside of your cultural borders in the turn where it declares war and therefore is able to land its troops within the same turn.

But I, too, never observed that some/all of the AI troops aren´t relocated immediately after changing open border treaties.

[Shades]

Originally posted by rayw69

Relocation of units happens every time. So either you are remembering what occured incorrectly, or one of two things happened in your scenario. Either you had a coastal city that was attacked amphibiously, or your landlocked city was within one tile or less of the enemy's cultural border.

Actually, it doesn't happen every time. I have had the AI declare war on me and kill one of my fast workers without the AI being "bounced out" of my area. The Mongol unit was easilly over a dozen squares into my territory. It simply attacked from where it had been sitting while exploring.

[Proteus_MST]

Originally posted by Shades
Actually, it doesn't happen every time. I have had the AI declare war on me and kill one of my fast workers without the AI being "bounced out" of my area. The Mongol unit was easilly over a dozen squares into my territory. It simply attacked from where it had been sitting while exploring.

And every part of your territory war covered by your cultural borders?
In my games, even if I had an empire with interlocking cultural borders, often there were small spots in the midst of my empire, which weren´t already covered by my borders.
So theoretically if an enemy Civ had canceled their Open borders treaty and immediately afterwards declared war against me, enemy units theoretically could have been relocated to these spots (if they had been the nearest spots lying "outside of my borders") and would have been able to capture/kill workers which seemed to be in the midst of my empire if they had movement points left (and far away from its outside borders)

[Aileron]

I wish I kept the save games before/after the AI sneak attack, but I was so pissed that I cheated and enilated that AI in one turn...It was a city that had always been mine, at least 2-3 tiles inland, no where near the border with that AI. I had previously been at war with that AI, then made peace, then opened borders with them. As I said, they waltzed in with some cavalry, looked around for many turns, then suddenly attacked that city and took it because it only had one cheesemo guy defending it. They were not bumped out of my territory. They razed the city and would have probably gone on to raze another in the next turn.

[Shades]

Originally posted by Proteus_MST


And every part of your territory war covered by your cultural borders?

I was playing on an inland sea map with myself situated in the NE corner of the map. The Mongol unit was 3 squares from the corner and my worker 2. There is no doubt that the unit never was bounced out of my territory. In fact, I had been watching it move around from turn to turn. It attacked from the same square that it resided in the turn before the DOW from the Mongols. My cultural borders were absolutely solid at least a dozen squares away from this. I am not guessing or in the least bit uncertain here.

[KoBushi]

Re: Are your border open?

Originally posted by Waldin
Mutual "open borders" is probably the thing I get offered most often by the other civilizations. And most of the time I refuse. I know that open borders mean I could get some advantages from better trade routes, I could spy out their territories, and I could spread my religion. But so can the others, and I'm not sure that agreeing to let them do that is a good idea.

What is your opinion? Do you have "open borders" with all other civilizations, or only a few selected ones, or none? Where do you see the advantages and risks?

The Computer cheats and knows where everything is anyway

Including where you are most vulnerable. So unless you are worried about them sending settlers through your civ, no harm.

[GeoModder]

Had the same last night regarding enemy units not being relocated.
Their was a group of macemen and a settler passing near my capital, 6 tiles in my territory and suddenly that civ declared war on me.

Well, the settler disappeared, but the macemen stayed and took on a few workers in a nearby forest.

[Aileron]

Originally posted by GeoModder
Had the same last night regarding enemy units not being relocated.
Their was a group of macemen and a settler passing near my capital, 6 tiles in my territory and suddenly that civ declared war on me.

Well, the settler disappeared, but the macemen stayed and took on a few workers in a nearby forest.

Thank you, glad some others have seen it too! Do you still have the save games before and after the attack? If so maybe you could post them in a bug thread?