War Chariot Rush and why ICS is not dead

[peyoan]

Played as egyptians, never been an aggressor so i thought i need to learn. Noble level, small inland sea map, 8 civs (think room for 4 cities each).

Once I establish my fifth city, i crank War chariots and attempt my all-time first ancient area attack. Wow was it easy. The Greeks fell without a loss (that 30% withdraw ability kicks butt, weaken'm up then go in for the kill). I captured a Greek city, and built 3 in the place of those i burned. City count: 9. The early religions taken i beeline for Theology and succeed. I convert the Romans and Persians to the north and now they like me.

I invade the Mali Empire on the southern edge of map next, the skirmishers put up quite a fight, but eventually that empire falls. It was on incredibly rich land in terms of terrain and resources and city placement, i keep all 4 cities i conquer and built an extra between former mali and former greece. City count: 14.

Inca refuses to let me open the borders for my missionaries to invade, lol, so i go to war with a dozen level 5 war chariots. The incans are the first to throw spearmen in my face, i suffer heavy losses, get 4 swordsmen and double back, and come out with only 4 chariots (but they made it to LEVEL 6 promotion!), and 2 cities. City count: 16.

Science: 0%, no civics, income: -24 per turn. OUCH. I culture flipped an arab city that was built in between my developing cities, and traded it to the friendly persians for currency and calendar. I am lacking severely in techs at this point. Once i get the trade though, my cities build marketplaces, and my workers build about a dozen plantations throughout the empire.

My gold situation is now +63 at 30% science. (wanting to get some gold first to upgrade those war chariots).

Moral of the story, yea, you get hit hard for gold if you expand too quickly. Make the right friends to help you get to currency and calendar, you will still blow the other out of the water.

I invaded the remainder of Inca and Arabia, winning my first ever civ domination victory by 1300 with 64% land and 70% population. ICS is far from dead, you just need to milk it a bit. (which is bad, i wish i could make a map with just a build-city limit per civ, i LOVE the open terrain for scouting and fighting).

[Solver]

Yes, I've done early rushes. With the proper selection of units, such as massed War Chariots early on, or Chariots + Quechua, you can do it. A Flanking II War Chariot has 50% withdrawl chance, so will likely do good damage and retreat then.

However, you WILL be dead in science. Once you're forced to go down to 30% or less, you're really quite screwed, unless you are Financial maybe. And that means that the AIs you haven't taken out will outtech you big time. When you're stuck with a huge army of Chariots or Horse Archers vs. Macemen and Longbowmen plus everyone hates you, you lose.

[TheWalrus]

By the sound of things you used the terrain to your advantage which is great. All that grassland makes for killer chariots.

However I'm not sure you could have the same success on say a Highland map where the terrain is much more varied.

I think you are right though, ICS isn't dead, but you have to rifle your shots more rather than just expand in any direction.

I've found if you have a major river or two at your starting position you can basically expand as much as you like along that river as the trade and the natural links between your cities from the start earn you enough money to outweigh the expansion cost losses.

[Footie Mad]

I find rushing with 1 movement point very cumbersome, chariots or horse archers are perfect since they let you choose the battles you fight in a totally different way. If you don't like the odds you can retreat and regroup, in the early game the enemy does not have a sufficient road net to follow with slower units. You can harass and stop expansion and building of infrastructure, while you build up forces to comfortably seize a city.

That way you can do a bit of a half assed rush and still pull it off, at least crippling your enemy making him an easy target later.

[Peets]

Maybe it's better to raze the cities?

[Common Sensei]

Conquest is ICS now?

[Aeson]

Congratulations on the successful Domination. This really isn't ICS at all though.

[Swissy]

You picked the right map to do that on. Inland sea allows you to focus on one opponent and only have one other civ to keep at bay. You can easily despatch one civ after another and not have to worry multiple attacks upon yourself. Try it on continents, and pray that Qin, Victoria and Washington aren't on the other continent.

[dearmad]

I don't see the problem- you won the game using strategy. great. it won't always work- you WERE egypt for those chariots, right? You did have a map that exposed you to limited flanks, so...

[Blake]

The thing about "ICS is dead" is that more cities isn't always better. Yes, you can make a strategy works that involves having a large number of cities, but it's not the only way to play.

[Skanky Burns]

Its not ICS.

[Amniotic]

I don't consider this ICS anyway. Conquest strategy has its own set of strengths, but also comes with heavy penalties... Suppose you had played a higher difficulty level, or a map where you had multiple exposed flanks. Your severe tech disadvantage would really hurt if someone hit you in your core cities while your masses of chariots were out on the loose. I know this from experience. :P Waves of advanced units crashing through what I thought was a safe border with an ally ended a Domination effort early a couple of nights ago.

[StarLightDeath]

Go try this in MP.

[King Thor]

Okay.. what exactly does ICS stand for? I can tell that its got to do with churning out lots of cities. But what does its stand for exactly?

[Blake]

Infinite city sprawl/sleaze.

In it's truest form cities are only 1 tile apart but more generally it refers to densely packing in more cities until you're completely out of space.