On the benefits of being Heathen

[padillah]

Just trying to figure out how big a deal religion really is. I know it's new, but is it actually important?

We've looked at the benefits of chasing the religions, but what about remaining Heathen? Does this hold any benefits?

Or picking a singular religion? Early or late?

Will the AI be irritated at you for not having any religion? As irritated as having a contrary one? Might it be better to have a -1 or -2 for no religion with everyone than a -5 or -6 with half of the AI's?

My single biggest "hate reason" is religion. And, If I'd stop chasing those obscure techs (and against a Spiritual civ I always loose one) I could concentrate on things like fishing and agri. Make big cities and lots of army.... Maybe I'm looking to change playstyle. Culture is getting me nowhere.

Tom P.

[Adagio]

Having a religion has it's benefits. One civic choice gives all cities with your state religion a bonus of 25 hammers when building buildings, while other civics gives other bonuses...

If I get one of the early religions I'll try to convert the others so they can adopt it (and get view of sight and friendship), but if I don't I'll just try to get one of the most common religions to get friends

[padillah]

Yes, but is the hammer bonus (and it's 25% not 25 hammers) worth the almost constant hatred of the other civs?

Is it worth loosing the other techs because you are too busy chasing the dead-end Polytheism?

Tom P.

[Adagio]

Originally posted by padillah
Yes, but is the hammer bonus (and it's 25% not 25 hammers) worth the almost constant hatred of the other civs?

Yeah, I ment 25%

Often there's not much to lose, just make sure to get the religion of your neighbors, so they wont attack you. As soon as their religion spreads to your land take it as your state religion and convert your cities. That way you get both bonuses

[Artuero]

It seems like you want as many religions in each of your city as possible. I don't think there is any upside to being a heathen, or limiting the amount of religions in your empire.

The only exception, and it can be a big one in MP and not sure what effect under SI is that the controller of the holy city can see into your cities that have its religion.

Does anyone know of any other usefulness to limiting the spread of regligions?

[padillah]

My problem is I'm constantly catching a beat-down because some civ doesn't like my state-religion.

I have become rather fond of the +25% mentioned earlier but don't know how much more it's worth it. After a certain point I'm thinking of ditching religions.

I'm acustomed to chasing religions but I think I'll just grab the first one I find or skip them altogether.

The only real benefit I see to having a state religion is the 25% hammers under OR. Shrines can see into other cities, that's not based on State religion. The happiness and culture are not based on state religion. I thinbk it might be just the "state religion" bit that's hanging me up. I can still chase religions, just don't adopt a state religion (or, drop it when it becomes a point of contention).

Tom P.

[Simplicity]

Having no religion is certainly a heck of a lot less work than trying to convert all of your neighbors to your religion. I think remaining a pagan will keep your from angering your neighbors as much as founding a new religion.

But you can't build a shrine... And that kind of sucks.

[Drachasor]

Converting to your neighbors religion can be hazardous. If they founded the religion and get the special building from a great prophet then they'll get 1 gold per turn for each city that has their religion in it. Hence spreading their religion to all of your cities can give your opponent a big boost.

Of course, that's why you want to found your own religions and spread them as much as possible. Raking in cash at 90% science is great.

-Drachasor

[Sarxis]

Originally posted by padillah
Yes, but is the hammer bonus (and it's 25% not 25 hammers) worth the almost constant hatred of the other civs?

That is kinda the point, isn't it? Is the bonus worth the hate? In my current game, just about all of the AI players love me because of other bonuses that it doesn't matter what religion I have. But if relations were more precarious, it would have to be weighed in the balance.

25% build time is an awesome bonus btw.

[Shr3dZ]

Is there any point at all to build missionaries of a non-state religion and spread it to your other cities? It give the AI more money, but on the other hand you get to build some new temples and stuff... is that it?

[QuestGAV]

I think the temples (and cathedrals that follow) would be the biggest benefits.

[Adagio]

It kinda depends on the situation. If you have a city that is way too angry, but you've build every happy building it can build it might be a good idea to spread it to that specific city

Also if this non-state religion is the religion most other civs has it might be a good idea to convert your cities so you can switch (if you don't want everybody to hate you)

[Ezy]

you got to have a religion even if its not the one u found
when you got a state religion it gives u +1 happy and culture just from being there, then u get 25% build or 2xp to units (if theocracy) then u get to build a temple and cath, its a must if u planing on building city with 10+ pop
then u get gold if u get the holy town with prophet
if u get the wonder u will get +2g for ur religion
religion is GOOD! Praise the LORD!!!
Also, if u get more then one build more and more temples, so its cheap very good when u are in war and stuff, if u have 3 or 4 religions in ur towns later in game u can to "freedom of religion" so its even more
ii never had more then 2 in all and maybe 3 in half by the end, i just forget to build it

the ONLY down side that i see is relations
and if you realy need them u can convert or just bribe them to like you

i would never trade all the benefits so that ai like it me more, not worth it imo

every one can use and if u are going for culture vitory u MUST get religon

so forget about heathern, religion is too important
the one who have it has the edge

[Shr3dZ]

So yer telling me, that if you embrace religion you can get:

LOTS of money
LOTS of
Some XP
A lil Science
Some Culture
Good/Bad relations

???

And you expect me to ? Ok, Im convinced.

The only other thing is people can spy on yer cities with non-state religion, plus they gain money.

Ok I think I may finally understanding religion...

[Ezy]

if u dont want them to spy just close the borders, unless u playing on immortal or higher u will get one religion or the other, i usulay spy on them with my and ai is not that persistant in spreding his, i played a few monarch and price games and ai was never spreding his on my turf, but i had my in all his towns so i was getting mad loads of gold
i dont think i would ever win with out that fin/happy benefit of religion