Why is the AI always a Warmonger?

[Melboz99]

Hey all,

It seems that the AI does little else but build massive armies these days.


I was playing on Chieftan last night after getting my ass handed to me on Warlord. Alexander decided to come in and attack me with about 10 Horseman, 5 Archers, and about 2 Longbowmen.

I was just working on Gunpowder at the time, but I upgraded all my Spearmen to Pikeman.

I had 2 Pikemen in every city, yet it was still no match for his numbers.

He took one of my outer cities, even though it used up most of his units.


I don't know, I just don't think it's fun when you're playing Builder style and all the AI does is plot War. I'm trying to win Via Space Race or Culture.

What's worse is that the AI seems to have almost no respect for my score. I could see them coming in and invading if my score was lower, but my score was double any AI score.


The real question is, how much of an army do I have to have to keep them off my back?

I think one thing that's caused a big problem for me is that Workers are no longer considered Military Units. It used to be in Civ III that I could get away with 2 or less units in a city as long as each city had two workers. This doesn't seem to work anymore.


So, how big of an army do I need?

Should I just play with "Always Peace" enabled?


Dan O.

[Kekkonen]

The score consists of more than just military might. You may have an advanced civ with lots of wonders which gives you a high score, but Alex may get his from a huge army. Given that he's got the 'aggressive' trait, this is actually very likely.

You were just unlucky to land next to the Greeks.This time, those leader traits really make a difference; aggressive leaders will behave differently than ones who are e.g. philosophical, spiritual, or financial. If you have one as your neighbor, you neglect your military at your own peril. Sorta works like that in real life too.

[mmm_ok]

Well, agressive AI does not seem to be the complaint that most people have on this board - more the opposite.

A couple of things:

1) I don't go to war that often but when I do I usually go with big stacks (10+ in each stack) and at least two prongs. I would expect the AI to do the same...

2) Check your Civ stats against the others. You can see your troop numbers against the civ average. If you're less than the average of all Civs, you're in trouble

I've played a few games where there have only been a few wars the whole game. It is very do-able to play CIV IV as a builder.

[Martinus]

As others already said, some AI leaders are simply warmongers - Alexander is one of them. Others, like Elisabeth or Washington, will be quite happy to coexist peacefully with you.

In any case, don't you think that's a rather naive complaint that the AI attacks you when you build a rich and glorious empire but neglect your defenses? I mean, you are for all purposes "ripe for conquest" as it were - I would complain if the AI, especially the more warlike leaders, passed on such a splendid opportunity.

Anyway, since some people are complaining that AI is too peaceful while others that it is too warlike, I get that it is pretty balanced in the end.

[trickey]

Originally posted by Martinus
I mean, you are for all purposes "ripe for conquest" as it were - I would complain if the AI, especially the more warlike leaders, passed on such a splendid opportunity.

I agree. It's nice to see the AI capitalizing on some human errors in this game. Failing to build up a military while sitting next to a naturally agressive leader is definatly a mistake.

What I wonder is if the AI takes into consideration any defensive pacts you may have with another nation before declaring war. If so, it may be possible to set up a defence system purely based on your diplomatic alliances.

[Blake]

On my first game (on Warlord) I've managed to be peaceful and on top of the score all game. Altough the Romans did manage to capture one of my bases, this was quite impressive because I looked at the base and thought "hmmm this needs better defense", started on a machinegunner but the Romans declared war and attacked before the MG'er was completed. I did move in a couple of units from a nearby base, one upgraded to a MG'er but

I'd acuse the AI of cheating and knowing my strength, but the "Most powerful Civ" thing gives an excellent indication, and I believe Rome actually was showing as #1 (with me dead last).

[Skanky Burns]

lol warmonger LOL


In my current warmonger game, I have attacked a total of twice. Both times were against barbarians. I have also been attacked a number of times. Yep, barbarians again. The other civs have not so much as looked nastily at me. Its now 1900 AD and most of my cities are still guarded by a single warrior. Its not all been roses though, I've captured a few cities through culture. They currently have my best units in them - infantry.

[Martinus]

Originally posted by trickey


I agree. It's nice to see the AI capitalizing on some human errors in this game. Failing to build up a military while sitting next to a naturally agressive leader is definatly a mistake.

What I wonder is if the AI takes into consideration any defensive pacts you may have with another nation before declaring war. If so, it may be possible to set up a defence system purely based on your diplomatic alliances.

I heard it does. Defensive Pacts come rather late in game though, and by the time they do you are either a toast or well entrenched.

Anyway if you guys wish for some nice extensive diplomacy (and its rewards) in game, enable the option to have permanent alliances. I believe you can only sign it with one civ in game, and you need to have a defensive pact first for a number of turns - but it is very nice, once you finally sign it, to know that there is an AI that doesn't just want to **** you over (militarily or diplomatically) but is out to help you (in one of my games I signed such an agreement with Elisabeth - which, btw, pissed off my erstwhile allies, Catherine and Washington - and started to get resources as gifts from the Virgin Queen - in fact she even called me once, asking if I don't need that wine she has in excess, as a gift ).

[Kekkonen]

Originally posted by trickey
What I wonder is if the AI takes into consideration any defensive pacts you may have with another nation before declaring war. If so, it may be possible to set up a defence system purely based on your diplomatic alliances.

Based on very limited experience, I believe it does. I was able to keep a small and weak China alive as a buffer state between myself (Germany, the most powerful nation on the planet) and the Greeks (aggressive, rated as the #3 Civ for most of the game) by signing a defensive pact with them. Before the pact, the Greeks were declaring war on the Chinese every now and then, but I was always there to broker a peace and save my brothers and sisters of faith. After the pact was established, the Greeks went quiet (they disliked me for it, but didn't have the muscle to do anything about it).

The behavior of AI Greece in that game pretty much proved to me that this time the aggressive AI is not suicidal.

[Demiurge2332]

To the original post

Well I haven’t noticed the AI being much more aggressive from other installments but the way you fight wars must be-

You need Archers (of any kind) in your cities along with spearmen. The rock paper sizors style demands it-- rely on one type of unit and you will be defeated!

The minute the Invasion force moves in reinforce cities with appropriate units and counter attack immediately- I do 5 prongs of 3-4 mixed units for the main purpose of destroying the infrastructure followed by larger stacks to take cities. Once there is war do ALL you can to defeat your enemy. Do not half-heartedly fight a war; make sure they NEVER do it again- Cripple them bad enough so that they can never catch up!

[Martinus]

Also, if you wish the AI to be more peaceful, just set up a custom game, with peaceful leaders. Likewise, if you want a game full of wars, choose warmonger opponents.

Here's a list that might help you:

Chief Peaceniks: Asoka, Ghandi, Frederick, Elisabeth, Mansa Musa, Washington.

Chief Warmongers: Tokugawa, Montezuma, Alexander, Julius Ceasar, Genghis Khan, Kublai Khan, Louis XIV.

[mmm_ok]

Just a little strategy that I've been playing with... don't know if it's true or I just imagined it but:

I found it best not to have Open Borders unless:

1) I share the same state religion as the other civ (as they're less likely to attack you)

or

2) I desperately need to get through a civ to get to another civ

I think the AI sends troops around your cities and looks at how well defended they are... It seems that if the AI doesn't know, it'll be less likely to surpise attack you.

I had a game with the Spanish where I neglected my army badly. She had a look around, built up a big force and surprised attacked me. I got trashed!

[Harovan]

Frederick II of Prussia (the "soldier king") being among the chief peacenicks has to be a joke.

[The diplomat]

I don't think the AI is always a warmonger. It will go to war if certain conditions are met:
- it has a stronger military than you
- you are close to winning the game
- your borders are really pushing his borders back
- too many negatives in the diplomacy window

Melboz99, my suggestion is to always build up your military even if you don't plan to invade anybody. It will serve as a deterrent. If you just focus on culture and science and neglect your military, the AI will attack you. One thing to do is look at how your culture and science compare with your neighbors. If you are ahead of them, that's a good time to build up your military. There is no point continuying to focus on science and culture and widening the gap if the AI is going to attack you and take it all away from you.

[Melboz99]

Thanks guys!

I started another game, this time on Chieftan.

It was a custom game with 7 Random AI civ's on 3 Continents on a Large Map with Low Sea Level.


I ended up between Bismark to my South, Washington to my East, and the Aztecs to my West. (Why am I always in the middle???).

After I got Caravels, I sent a few out and found Elizabeth, Alexander, and I can't remember the others.


Bismark happens to have the second highest score, which is approx. 1/3 mine.

From the get-go I put in an Archer unit to go with my Warriors in each city, and later upgraded all my Warriors to Spearmen, and then to Pikemen.

Unfortunatley, I didn't upgrade the Archers when I got Longbowman, so now they have to upgrade to Infantry which is going to cost over 9,000 gold.

I did upgrade all of my pikemen to Riflemen, and half of my Riflemen to Infantry.

Right now I have founded every religion, and have built every wonder that has been built save The Hanging Gardens (don't know why that one never showed up).


Anyway, I've got at least 3 Military units in each city, with some having up to 5 or 6.

The AI still makes demands every now and then, but I suppose technically they are "requests" because they are still pleased.

If the game hadn't suddenly crashed on me I would have finished it. I think it might have to do with the map getting corrupted. I wonder if there is a memory leak?

I'll try Warlord again tonight or tommorrow.

Oh yeah, I'm headed for a Culture Victory, 3 cities already above 20k, and I'm just now getting the big Culture wonders.



Thanks,
Dan O.