Cultural Victory

[Adagio]

The only time I tried to get a culture victory was in a game where I played as Egypt (creative and spiritual). I didn't get to own any of the holy cities, but I did manage to get 4 different religions into my cities, so I could still build a lot of temples and cathedrals. To stay in peace with everybody I had the same religion as all the other civs (except india, but they were located far away from me, and was kept down (and later destroyed) by the other civs
I only built wonders that gave great artists (I had both stone and marble to help), and these great artists was used as a special citizen to produce culture during the game. About halfway through I changed to the culture boost instead. All my great people where artists
One huge mistake I made was at the beginning, when one of the enemies chose to plant a city in my lands, so I planted a city just next to and gave it a culture boost so I could take the city... unfortunatly I was blind at the moment, because I chose to plant the city in the middle of the dessert (with water in the top/bottom 3 tiles) and a couple of mountains and hills... the city never grew past size 2, but because I've already given it a boost I chose to try to get this one to become legendary... this happened the year 2050, so it was a very close race
I also did everything I could to get Free Speech (IIRC that's the civic that gives +100% culture)

[Merzbow]

Jcg316 you are awesome... hiding GAs in subs under the ice caps. I almost died laughing.

Is the AI smart enough in SP to notice that you're hoarding GAs or is this only a worry in MP? If it isn't smart enough, it seems like a bug in the AI that should be fixed. I'm hoping someday we'll see a player mod written specifically to smarten up the AI as exploits/strategies are developed.

[xxFlukexx]

Phew, last cultural game, won in 1862 AD with Ghandi, normal settings, noble, continents. Below 1850 is possible, hard but possible. On higher difficulties it gets *much* harder because AIs get stronger and more likely to attack you and it is a lot harder to get wonders on Prince and above.

Had a huge barbarian problem but the large map made things a bit easier than on my standard map in other games. My neighbor, tokugawa never allowed open borders so that made spreading religion hard.

Moral of my game was that building wonders and the cathedrals are better than purely pumping out great artists. I did get about 4-5 more great prophets that I liked but I turned them into great specialists and that was a pretty good boost. I grabbed 5 religions, 7 cities, got about 4 cathedrals. Had access to stone and copper but no marble, you really need 2 out of 3 of those resources for fast cathedral building. Go straight for the religion techs, then the terrain improvement techs, then shoot for drama, music and liberalism then hit 100% or 90% culture. Representative helps, getting free speech asap helps, keep organized religion on for most of the time for missionaries without monasteries and switch to pacifism when you finish most of the cathedrals.

Merzbow: Nah the AI doesn't know I am hoarding GAs, how is he supposed to know? Without cheating there is no way he can know, especially when I build a mix of wonders. Caste System is a clue that someone is going for a cultural victory, but caste system is used by lots of people playing normally. The AI probably gets real aggressive after the first city goes legendary culture but with GAs you can time it so that you get all 3 at legendary within a few turns. It's more like sometimes the AI doesn't attack, especially when I give in to all of his gold and tech demands.

[Minute Mirage]

I also won my first culture victory as well as my game at monarch. I wasn't aiming at a culture victory from the start, but when I noticed I had three cities with good culture rates I decided to go for it. Having three religions (four by the end game) and their cathedrals was key to this as well as running free speech of course. I didn't use great artists very effectively at all, only got 2 the whole game and the second was so late that I was getting around 900 culture/turn in the city I used it in.

I only researched techs as far as tanks, infantry and planes and then built lots of them so as to have a decent defense in case I was attacked. I then set the culture slider to 100% and started to produce culture in the three cities. The AIs soon overtook me in techs and two of them were building their space ship by the time I reached 50000 culture points in my cities.

Btw, I was playing as Elizabeth on a large lakes map if it matters.

[Merzbow]

Well, if you have a bunch of unused GA's stashed in a city somewhere, the AI can easily see this with a spy or if you've got open borders. If it does see this it should realize what you're going for. I always have spies/explorers checking out enemy cities on a regular basis.

[ben_sphynx]

According to the Civopedia, one needs 4 cities with Legendary culture to win (see the Victory entry)

Is it the case that one only actually needs three?

[xxFlukexx]

Yeah, the victory conditions in the civilopedia are wrong. It's 3 cities at 50k culture for a victory on normal speed. Civilopedia also says its 75% pop/75% territory for a domination win while it's more like ~45% pop and ~65% territory to win a domination victory.

Actually I believe domination conditions change slightly during the time of a game, they start at like 37% pop 60% territory and increases slightly over the course of the game.

Hmm yeah the AI should use spies to scout out GA stockpiles. I haven't seen an enemy spy ever so who knows what the AI is thinking.

[Peets]

Domination depends of the map type and size
I think it calculates how much land there actually is you can take (in percantage) and then gives you how much you need to take.
Also when in group, you have to take more.

[DeepO]

Aeson, just a quick note: I think the spoiler idea is great!

As to your results: 1300 AD is quick for sure. I can only add one thing to your excellent analysis:

Spoiler:

by changing production improvements to cottages around the time you start using the slider, you will get even more culture. This beats 'building' culture, but 'building' culture can be theat little bit extra, especially in hill country (which would take too long to go cottage heavy)

DeepO

[DeepO]

Originally posted by xxFlukexx
I haven't seen an enemy spy ever so who knows what the AI is thinking.

That is the best quote I've seen here all week! Of course you won't see spies, that's the point, isn't it

DeepO

[Volstag]

I just attempted a cultural victory on my last game. Three cities, 8 enemy civs, continents, noble.

I hade all three of them break 50k within 10 or 20 turns of each other. It really came down to early wonders, every culture generating building available, and a good stream of great artists.

I do have a question though: once my three cities broke 50k culture I was expecting the game to end with a cultural victory. I went a few more turns expecting it to happen at any point. When my lowest culture city was at 56k, I began to wonder what was up. I then check the civlopedia and notice you need "four" 50k cities for a cultural victory. Why then do they only show the top three cities on the victory status screen?

Anyway, at this point it was way too late to get a 4th city up to 50k, so I retired.

[Minute Mirage]

You only need three cities, but if you play at epic speed you need 75000 culture points, I think. Was this the case for you?

[Aeson]

Game speed or map size may affect how many cities you need? Not sure on this.

EDIT: Minute's guess is more likely.

[rab230]

Finally managed my first cultural victory last night, on Prince level - quite a challenge, as I started on my own island. A large island, but I was totally isolated from other AI players until about 500 AD - meanwhile they were trading with each other like crazy, so I had quite a large tech deficit to make up!

Followed the same strategy as several other people have said; used Saladin for Phi (+100% GA rate), and very early on in the game, decided which 3 cities were going to go cultural. The capital and city #2 built as many early cultural wonders as possible, with city #3 only exempted as it did not have enough production to guarantee snaring the wonder at all. This city ended up receiving Hermitage and the Globe Theatre to raise the culture rate. This city would also be the one receiving most of the Great Artists to pump it to the required level.

As others have said, religions are key, and as Saladin I managed to establish Hinduism directly, and used a couple of Great Prophets to snag Christianity and Islam - I had already built the Hindu shrine. Any further Great Prophets afterwards built the remaining two shrines, and any that appeared after that resulted in some swearing on my part , since they're just Golden Age fodder (although this would prove crucial later on!).

My overall approach involved spreading my religion prolifically, building as many temples as possible, and then building Cathedrals in my three chosen cultural cities. You just can't beat that early bonus. It is necessary to keep up in the tech race too, though - Liberalism for Free Speech is +100% culture, running Caste System allows many Great Artists to try and minimise "dodgy Great Person syndrome", and Pacifism doubles the generation of these people.

The endgame was incredibly tense, as the Chinese were way ahead of me technologically by the time I had researched Railroad, and I knew I was in trouble when they grabbed Broadway soon afterwards (obviously a target wonder for me, but I was some way from Electricity). I basically blitzed for Radio and Mass Media, grabbed Hollywood with a Great Engineer having lost Rock and Roll to the damn Egyptians, rushed Broadcast Towers in my 3 cultural centres, then whacked the cultural slider to 100%. I had badly lost the tech race, and now it was time to hunker down, build culture in the top 3, and military units in all my other cities to beat back the inevitable conflict as I headed to victory. A Great Merchant was born that paired with my useless Great Prophet, and this late Golden Age pushed my culture generation up considerably due to the extra commerce. I think this was crucial in snatching victory

I won the game in 1952 AD, just one turn before the Chinese finished their last space ship part - and on the same turn they finished the Space Elevator !

--Rick

[Azuarc]

For people confused about victory conditions, there is a button on the advisor bar in the upper-right that will actually tell you what you need to win and how your best-known rival is doing...with respect to each individual victory type.

Moral of my game was that building wonders and the cathedrals are better than purely pumping out great artists. I did get about 4-5 more great prophets that I liked but I turned them into great specialists and that was a pretty good boost. I grabbed 5 religions, 7 cities, got about 4 cathedrals. Had access to stone and copper but no marble, you really need 2 out of 3 of those resources for fast cathedral building. Go straight for the religion techs, then the terrain improvement techs, then shoot for drama, music and liberalism then hit 100% or 90% culture. Representative helps, getting free speech asap helps, keep organized religion on for most of the time for missionaries without monasteries and switch to pacifism when you finish most of the cathedrals.

This is very close to how I play it, but I don't sweat the religions as hard, and prefer to play a more tech-focused game that ultimately works toward Mass Media for Eiffel Tower, Broadway, Rock'n'roll, and Hollywood.



And to the poo-poo'ers of creative, I find it to be more effective than philosophical. I don't like making tons upon tons of specialists, and only make them in the cities I need as I know I'm able to without limiting my cities otherwise.

The trick to winning with creative is to use it for its land-grabbing potential in the early game, which is what you use it for with any victory type. If you spread out quickly enough to get 7 cities with some decent cultural borders, you will ultimately take over 2 more down the road that will lead to the magic 9 cities for building 3 of each cathedral you are capable of.

Creative is also helpful for the cheapened theaters, although I suppose that's more an overall-helper than for your 3 main cities. But between that and the innate culture bonus of creative, you won't have to be frustrated that your city has a radius of 1 and is taking 30 turns to build an obelisk just so you can get the fat cross for resources.