What to do when the AI starts demanding?

[Mayfield]

Originally posted by vinhmac
I'd be interested if anyone has done it the opposite way - ie warmonger demanding from tech-advanced AI - and whether they have pulled it off in the latter stages?

Yes it works. On Prince I have squeezed my weaker neighbors out of gold, world maps, resources. Just not tech because I am usually ahead of them anyway. Why do you think I am stronger?

Too bad the moronic A.I. still makes tech demands of me, even though I am #1 militarily. I just say no and let them try to attack me.

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by lokiju
But there should be an option to negotiate instead of a flat out "no". Instead of the only option being (besides saying yes) "I DON'T want to give you a free 2000 beaker tech", it should let you substitute something else to keep up relations. That would be nice. I'm not going to hand you Math, but here's Horseback Riding. At least to show good faith and take less of a diplomatic hit.

Yes, negotiable demands would be a good improvement, rather than having to endure a 5,000 year diplomatic scar for not handing over the peachiest new military tech around to some whining wastrel. Especially when they don't normally even trade you their hottest tech.

[Melboz99]

You know what really pisses me off about the AI?

They keep on asking for Uranium in exchange for Fish!

Or in the ancient or middle ages they will ask for Iron or Copper in exchange for Sheep or Rice.


One thing that might be a bug, when they ask to exhange world maps, click Negotiate, remove the World Map from your side of the table, and then ask "What would make this work?"

I've done this at least 50 times and every time they say they only need 10 gold.

Dan O.

[QuestGAV]

Ouch, does that trick work even when you don't have much knowledge of the world beyond your island and they do?

[Jcg316]

You can always get your friends' maps for ten gold. They'll make that trade regardless of whether they come asking or not. Neutral civs may do it for that or at least close to it as well.

edit: Oh and units have power ratings as well as strength which is generally what you'd expect, some may be a little low or a little high. Usually the low ones are units only good for defense or offense, instead of the same for both. It has nothing to do with combat though, just scaring off other civs.

[Felan]

Actually I've only been able to get maps for 10 gp when it's basically not much more then I've already seen before. I'm playing an Ice Age game as Isabella and spent quite a lot of my early game time fighting off barbarians coming in off of the glaciers north of Europe. So I didn't get much exploring done and it's a HUGE map. I bought Egypt's map for 60 gp the first time and it revealed SE Asia and Australia for me, after that it was 10 gp anytime I wanted an update. Another map revealed South America and another North America, both maps were over a 100 gp, or were part of a tech trade.

I don't think score dissuades AI players at all, Power Rating helps ... but if your culture is pressing hard against their cities they will have to go to war eventually. Alexander was in NorthWest Africa (there is a land bridge from NW Africa to what would be Spain on the Ice Age map), and I pretty much had culture my borders around three sides of his city. Napolean had Eastern Africa and Asoka had south Africa. Alexander was between two rocks and an ever-encroaching hardplace. It was a bit hairy for awhile but I eventually beat him back and took one of his cities.

Two buddy nations is what I've found to be best. I pick nations that are not adjacent to me or each other, so they don't have hate due to culture clash. I develop positive relations with them and never given to demands by angry neighbors to stop trading with their worst enemy if it is my buddy. I generally help my buddies with techs because if they are strong and friendly with me I can pretty easily bring them into the war on my side or even have a defensive pact in place before the war. It is also makes it harder for civs that hate me to take them out and become monsters swelled on the fat of my buddies nations. I generally trade surplus goods for any amount of gold I can get to anyone, my buddy civs don't seem to mind too much (maybe a -1) as the positive relations with my buddy nations makes them less demanding and less offended by you trading with others.

I was trading with Tokugawa while he was at war with Egypt and taking her cities and she still didn't care about that. I started giving Egypt techs, money, goods as gifts to help bolster her resistance to Japanese aggression.

I've used diplomatic channels to force nations to make peace with other nations. Napolean was threatening to wipe out Asoka (a buddy) so I conviced Napolean to back off. Asoka was too weak and eventually I withdrew my support of him and even joined Napolean in the free for all that was Asoka's cities.

I've found diplomacy to be a big help in playing nations against each other or bolstering weaker nations. Even if you want to conquor everyone it's best to not take on everyone at once.

[kobo1d]

I hate Isabella.

I always start near her. And I have come to expect the Spanish Inquisition.

They are tricky.

One of the more interesting behavior quirks is when the AI decides to dogpile a weaker civ. Like in my last game, Montezuma got shafted as far as habitable lands go, and was an early aggressor. He didn't make many friends (except Peter...who sat on his coast and made boats all day) and foolishly attacked Hatshepsut (the #2 score leader.) Hatshepsut responded by not only obliterating his outer rim cities, but calling the aid of Mansa (#3), Catherine (#4). Catherine demands Tokugawa (#7) to declare on old Monty and Mansa (whose borders are precariously near my undefended homelands) forcefully asks me (Qin, #1) to do so. So now it's 5v1, and Montezuma goes down in flames. [Noble, Standard, Pang.]

I'm glad I wasn't him!

[TomVeil]

I'm playing a game right now where the Mongols are demanding Uranium despite being way more than 20 turns away from getting the tech to use it. Combined with your hunch that your AI went to war to get your uranium, we may have found a bug -- or an eccentric game programmer trying to make some kind of political statement.

[Handel]

There was an exploit in Civ 3. Too lazy to check if it works in Civ 4 too.
When the AI demands something, just make an counter-offer - give them a gift of 1-2 golds and they are happy. Everyone likes freebies

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by Handel
There was an exploit in Civ 3. Too lazy to check if it works in Civ 4 too.
When the AI demands something, just make an counter-offer - give them a gift of 1-2 golds and they are happy. Everyone likes freebies

Too lazy to check, but happy enough to dispense bad advice?

[Mayfield]

No you cannot counter someone who is demanding something.. you just can't get rid of what they are demanding in the deal. I wish you could just suggest somethingin trade for it.

[Quillan]

That doesn't work in CIV. Whether they are asking or demanding, you only have two options: YES and NO (though they are couched in different terms). There is no negotiation option.

[Handel]

Originally posted by Cort Haus


Too lazy to check, but happy enough to dispense bad advice?

This is not an advice at all. This is an exploit. Some players like to use the exploits and some know it is simply a cheat and don't use it even when it is a legitimate move.

[logan_jiang]

heres what I do. I tell them no. Then it always goes to a trade screen.

Then I propose to make a deal. Then see if I can make a trade whith them. I give it to them at a good price.

The only consquences are -1 "You refused tribute" or -1 "You refused to help us" depending on the tone of hte request. If you maintain good trade realtions and give them a good price maybe a couple 100 beakers on tech trades then you get the +4 "Our trades are forthright and fair" also for long term resource or luxury trades you get the +1 or +2 "We appreciate the years you have supplied us with resources"

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by Handel


This is not an advice at all. This is an exploit. Some players like to use the exploits and some know it is simply a cheat and don't use it even when it is a legitimate move.

It's not an exploit or a cheat or legitimate because it simply doesn't work. You just gave some false advice, which was this :

When the AI demands something, just make an counter-offer - give them a gift of 1-2 golds and they are happy. Everyone likes freebies

You cannot turn down the request to give them the demanded tech without getting a attitude hit. Free gifts offered come under the topic of trading deals, and not under the topic of assistance. You might get a +1 on the trade ledger by giving a gift, but not on the help ledger.

Your advice, which by your own admission you were too lazy to check was false, but you posted it anyway. Then you try to wriggle out of it.