Problems with Civ 4? Go vote in this poll please

[BleckLord]

The poll isn't in the help section. It's possible our numbers are being under represented.

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=141681

I didn't notice it until Friday, Nov. 4.

[BleckLord]

Bump

[BleckLord]

Bump

[BleckLord]

Bummp

[Bill3000]

Stop spamming.

[BleckLord]

no. too many new threads from people with problems.

Bump

Since this thread has been on the top of the help section, poll results have gone from 27% reporting problems to 43%. I'm just trying to keep the pole honest. I didn't even know about it because it wasn't in the 'Help' section.

[Bill3000]

Doesn't matter. Bumping threads is not allowed. Artifically padding up polls just because others don't visit those forums isn't allowed, either.

[Franklinnoble]

Originally posted by Bill3000
Doesn't matter. Bumping threads is not allowed. Artifically padding up polls just because others don't visit those forums isn't allowed, either.

How is that "artificial"?

And what's wrong with bumping an important thread?

Sheesh... relax already... this is just an internet BBS... not the Library of Congress or something....

[Imminence]

If I just reply and do not use the word "bump"....would this also be against the forum rules?

[JohnUghrin]

I would say, no.

Given the number of people who are having to report installations that don't work....no.

I'm a pretty saavy computer guy and this is a pretty crappy release. (Very disappointed, not my usual experience with Firaxis.) The game design is just brilliant, but the technical aspects are all pretty lame.

Civ4 regularly crashes my entire machine, not just to desktop...not to the BSOD...just dead comatose...need to hit the power switch to get it restarted. Yes, my machine fits the recommended requirements and my graphics card is supposedly on the list of supported ones. I've done all the driver hijinks and still nothing.

[rant]
The only way software companies get away with this kind of shoddy craftsmanship (and that's all it is) is that we gleefully support them at it. We certainly wouldn't tolerate a make of car that "just always has trouble with Canadian roads, you should try driving on US highways." Yet, somehow, software companies have convinced us that that kind of completely unwarranted lack of quality is somehow "standard."

And before anyone tells me how complex these programs are...Cell phones run a very complex operating system...when was the last time you heard of one of them crashing?
[/rant]

Anyway, I'm not quite at the point of giving up on computer games entirely, but this release is putting me pretty close.

[Bill3000]

A notable thread will gain readers and posters on its own. That is the entire point of popular threads. Bumping one's own thread is partially a matter of selfishness.

How about if I called a bunch of people from the OT who have Civilization 4 to vote in the thread to say if it works? Would you have the same reaction?

And I'd still like to point out that a lot of these issues are a matter of your own responsibility, not a matter of Firaxis. Firaxis is not responsible for upgrading your own computer.

[Franklinnoble]

Here we go again...

Many people have problems even if their computers meet published specs, and even if their computers play other new and graphically intense games.

Stop accusing people of having crappy hardware. The game is buggy and doesn't work like it should for everyone. That's largely because it wasn't properly tested and developed under a diverse enough set of configurations.

I am waiting for the patch as patiently as possible, but I find the constant accusations about the inadequacy of my hardware to be rather frustrating.

As for drawing attention to the poll... well, if you wanted to be really unfair, you could post the poll in this forum. I'm sure you'd love the results then.

[sn0wX]

Originally posted by Bill3000
A notable thread will gain readers and posters on its own. That is the entire point of popular threads. Bumping one's own thread is partially a matter of selfishness.

How about if I called a bunch of people from the OT who have Civilization 4 to vote in the thread to say if it works? Would you have the same reaction?

And I'd still like to point out that a lot of these issues are a matter of your own responsibility, not a matter of Firaxis. Firaxis is not responsible for upgrading your own computer.

some people like this one need something to complain about to get attention in their own form of selfishness. Bumping a thread about nothing is selfish, bumping one so people are informed about something beneficial to the whole community is one person helping many.

as for firaxis, no its not their responsability to upgrade my computer, its their responsability to release a product that works, and considering at one point it seemed 90% of ati users(and about 50% of all users) were unable to play the game, this game does not work.

As for my computer, double the min, 2.4ghz, 1gig ram, 256mb radeon, and their bs fix doesn't work. before you challenge my credibility, i've 17 years on a pc with at least 10 of those repairing fixing and building pcs.

As for firaxis, im not as mad about the crap they threw on my shelf as i am the fact there is no official patch that i can see on the civ4.com website. get to work slave!

[Imminence]

Originally posted by Bill3000
And I'd still like to point out that a lot of these issues are a matter of your own responsibility, not a matter of Firaxis. Firaxis is not responsible for upgrading your own computer.

In my eyes people like you are partially responsible, that after about 20 years of (serious) computer gaming most of the manufacturers dare to blame the customers for not being able to handle a PC and / or a software.

Why are you (and all those doing the same stuff over and over on all boards) partially reponsible? Well, you try to find excuses for an undoubtly bad programmed game and tell us to become better in handling our stuff.

Read the above example about the car. The unknown aspect for a car manufacturer is the customer, because a car-user is - at least in my country - mostly human. Although a human is a non-calculable aspect, most car-users buy a car, start it and drive away.
Especially the USA are known for their user-friendly way of handling wrong-going things. I doubt, that there is a car manufacturer who would even consider to tell a customer "hey, you are just too stupid for my car".
Why do the software manufacturers dare to blame us since years? Because they CAN do it and because there is always a bunch of ppl like you.

Sure there are lots of ppl running totally messy configurations; sure there are lots of users not able to handle a PC. But I postulate, that most of the more dedicated PC-gamers know, how to install, update and maintain their stuff.

Since DOS-times, when the game-time was splitted in 2 halves (adjusting memory, interrupts for every game differently was one, to play, uninstall and reinstall the other) I've not seen ugly crashes like in CIV 4.
The more I write, the more I ask myself, how it can be possible, that there are STILL ppl out there, who try to excuse the manufacturer.

[BleckLord]

Originally posted by Bill3000
Doesn't matter. Bumping threads is not allowed. Artificially padding up polls just because others don't visit those forums isn't allowed, either.

So like, getting out the vote on election day is bad and people shouldn't vote. If posting a link to a poll in a thread is wrong, the mods can take it down.

There are several reasons why I had to bump the thread repeatedly:

A. Its just here so that people in the help section know about the poll, thus there is little reason for posting a comment, you comment by voting in the poll.

B. Too many people are getting on the help board and making duplicate threads. I mean by noon Saturday you had to go to page three just to find threads from Friday. I say, bump through the garbage.

It looks like this thread might get some legs of its own though thanks to your comments

And sure you can get your posse and I'll get mine. There have been too many people writing of the problems we're having, saying that only a few people really have problems with the game. Not true I say. The more people that vote in the thread the more statistically significant the results become.

Originally posted by Bill3000
And I'd still like to point out that a lot of these issues are a matter of your own responsibility, not a matter of Firaxis. Firaxis is not responsible for upgrading your own computer.

Bill3000, I'd like for you to tell me what in my computer configuration is so wanting for an upgrade:

AMD Athlon64 3000+
1GB RAM
ATI 9800XT 256MB
WinXP SP2 fully updated
DX9.0c as per Civ4 CD

The problems I've seen in the support thread run the entire spectrum of computer hardware, from sub-min to well above recommended. Many of the users here have gone above and beyond a good faith attempt to tweak their computers into running Civ 4 reliably.

The car analogy keeps coming up. Its good. I like it because many of the intolerant computer experts complaining about inexperienced users would be in the opposite role if thier car were to suddenly start stalling randomly. (not saying anyone here is a mechanic or mechanically challenged, I know that most of the people I know, including myself, that are ‘computer people’ are not ‘car people’) Its also a good example of a product where reliability is taken very seriously. Think about the number of critical components go into a car, about how many ways they can go wrong. Now do the math, several car manufacturers have models that report defect rates of less than 14 per 100 through the first 5 years of vehicle life. So assuming 10,000 critical components, that puts the 5 year failure rate at 0.00017%. Quality and process control are not an art, they are a science. If developers wanted to produce significantly better products on release, they could.