Exact formula for calculating beakers?

[The Meal]

Nice to be back Apolytoneers. 'Sbeen since SMAC since a 4X has gripped me this way. Wonderful to see Vel's already working on a strategerie guide.

Anyway, I've been running a game on Noble with a spreadsheet running concurrently, and I get all my numbers to jive with reality (hammers leading to production, food leading to growth, etc.) just as you'd expect, with one exception. I cannot get my number of beakers earned (through commerce in the early game, commerce and specialists later), to jive with the rate at which I research new technologies.

And the number by which I underestimate (always, it's underestimation) varies from tech to tech. Sometimes I underestimate by one beaker per turn, other times it's been up to six. I cannot figure out what factor I'm not taking into account -- from my stool it looks to actually be a random additive to the formula (that resets when you start working on a new tech). I've only run this game through about 2000 BC (keeping things simple for now), but intend to continue my experimentations.

Has anyone else done this legwork already?

Thanks, all. Especially thanks to those of you who ensured such a great game would be available for players like me, right out of the box.

~Neal

[Eric Snyder]

I had read another thread somewhere that extra research points carry over to the next technolgy project. I have not tested this myself. Could this be the culprit?

[The Meal]

Originally posted by Eric Snyder
I had read another thread somewhere that extra research points carry over to the next technolgy project. I have not tested this myself. Could this be the culprit?

No, it's a turn-by-turn thing while researching the same tech. If I see 9 beakers being generated while being at 0/67 total beakers for say Mysticism (making up numbers here)...

Moving from BC 4000 to BC 3960, however, I'd find that I was at 10/67 beakers (all the while showing my Civ producing 9 beakers per turn).

The carry-over effect works perfectly, by the way, with a one-to-one correspondance for beakers unused to finish up the previous tech.

~Neal

[The Meal]

In looking at a discussion over on another site, I was reminded that tech prices in previous Civs "deflate" as other civilizations discover those technologies. Is it possible that this additive factor per turn is something like the number of civilizations that have already discovered the tech? (Actually I'd imagine the additive bonus is something like 1 + {Num of Civs having already discovered the tech when you started the research} , as I've never seen the mystery points be 1. zero, or 2. change during the course of me researching a technology.)

Does anyone out there know the details of this formula?

TIA,
~Neal

[abj9562]

Another possibility might be leader traits.

[The Meal]

I suppose so. I believe the test game was run with Napoleon (which I can verify if folks really think this is the issue).

~Neal

[Nacht]

I think you just get one beaker for free for some reason. If you put your science rate to 0% at the beginning of the game (not advisible ), you'll notice that you still reseach one beaker a turn.

[The Meal]

Originally posted by Nacht
I think you just get one beaker for free for some reason. If you put your science rate to 0% at the beginning of the game (not advisible ), you'll notice that you still reseach one beaker a turn.

Right. And you get that one beaker per turn with ANARCHY too. However, it's not always just one beaker. It can be as high as six (and possibly even more), and it stays consistent within research of the same Technology. When my civ would start researching a new technology, it was almost as if there was a randomizer at work giving me an additional +1 to +6 beakers each turn, inexplicable to any of my tiles worked, multipliers, science rates, etc.

~Neal

[DaveMcW]

Maybe you get 1% of the tech cost every turn? Similar to Civ3's min research.

[lodidodi]

I am wondering if there are specific leader-based or trait-based research bonuses.

For example, if you play Gandhi you get a +3 beaker/turn bonus when researching early religions (meditation, polytheism, monotheism), a +5 beaker/turn bonus when researching Masonry, and no bonus when researching Hunting.

Other "spiritual" leaders (Montezuma, Isabelle) also get a +3 beaker/turn bonus for early religions. I haven't done extensive testing so I'm not sure if the bonuses are directly based on the leadership traits (but since Gandhi is "industrious" that could also explain his bonus for Masonry).

These bonuses don't show up in the calculations on any screens, you just have to look at how many beakers your screen says you are producing, and then the next turn look at how much you added since the last turn. For example if you're Gandhi and you're producing 10 beakers/turn and you're 26/75 into Meditation, the next turn you'll still be producing 10/turn but you'll be at 39/75 when the calculation would make you expect to be at 36/75.

These test were all done at Noble level so that might be affecting things too.

Anyone have more info on this?

Thanks,
Lodi Dodi