ICS as the Christ martyr

[Ribannah]

In both Civ2 and Civ3, it was quite possible to win SP with just one city. Only, your score suffered tremendously.

[Dinner]

The lions should be weakened a bit. Even primative tribes didn't have a problem with wildlife decimating their war bands.

[Alexfrog]

Cities not growing while building a worker or settler is one of the best features of the game, imo. It reduces the micromanagement needed when you have a city growing and shirnking, growing and shrinking. I HATED that. All it did was waste time.

This has nothing to do with multiplayer vs singleplayer, is just a much beter rule.

Further, eliminating ICS is necessary. Before there was one strategy: get as many cities as possible as fast as possible. The strategy that got you cities slower was inferior.

Now this is not the optimal strategy, due to the maintenance system. This opens the way for doing SOMETHING in the opening other than spamming settlers (and defending them), or resorting to other means (military) to 'found' cities.

One of those somethings is religion. Another is an early wonder. There are now several strategies, because the one dominant strategy was changed so it isnt dominant.


Its not that you cant expand, however, there is a point at which expanding more, early in the game, will only hurt you, and thus you must balance it with other strategies!

[Skanky Burns]

The new anti-ICS system is a very elegant and intelligent way of solving the ICS problem. Now there is a tradeoff between more production and more income (science). Unlike Civ3 solutions, this one actually increases our range of valid strategies. polypheus illustrated it well, so I'll repeat it here:

In Civ 3, instead of trying to better model the drawbacks of ICS realistically, they conceded ICS (pop cost of 2 does nothing but delays ICS) and simply made the AIs much better at ICS! So you were in this settler rush, ICS race and it was so annoying to be forced into this type of game.

The only valid game we could play was to out-ICS the computer players and spam the map with our own settlers before they did. The current rule actually allows us to use several valid strategies. We can build a small, rich kingdom with an associated high science rate, we can increase our population base and production until finances are drained - a technologically backwards but (potentially) militarily powerful civ.

By staying small, virtually all the gold you make can be channelled into science. By choosing large, you get increased production at the cost of science. Both appear to be valid strategies.

ICS as we knew it, though, is dead!

[TomVeil]

Originally posted by Ribannah
If it takes 30 turns to build a Settler, don't do it!

The Seneca Queen has a point...

From what I've read on the forums and in the reviews, the list for Civ V is probably going to start off with "civil wars", "more plagues", and "Not-So-Great People who spread bad ideas." So enjoy the game while it's still winnable.

[Addled Platypus]

Originally posted by Oerdin
The lions should be weakened a bit. Even primative tribes didn't have a problem with wildlife decimating their war bands.

I have never won a battle out in the open vs a lion, do you get a promotion if you do?

+10 open field defense?

I had seen a lion stay on top of hill, untill I had moved a W/S
stack out to expand, here comes Mr Lion

One attack both units gone

Quite the blow, I was going for a nice piece of land that would of brought my empire much wealth, now the AI got there first.

[TomVeil]

If you beat an Animal, you only get XP if your unit has very few XP, I think less than 10.

[kittenOFchaos]

There has never been a recorded incident of a Lion attacking a warband...

Now that could mean it has never happened, or no warband has ever survived being attacked by a lion

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by TomVeil
If you beat an Animal, you only get XP if your unit has very few XP, I think less than 10.

You can get up to 5 xp with animals, and then 10 with barbs. To get beyond 10 you need a civ to beat on.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by quinalla
ICS was not just a MP problem, it unbalanced SP as well. What cIV has done well is get rid of any "best" strategy, there are lots of things that work. You can still expand rapidly, it is just that there are downsides to that strat like anything else.

To quote Ted... Word

[Ribannah]

The lion is not a single lion either.

[TomVeil]

Originally posted by kittenOFchaos
There has never been a recorded incident of a Lion attacking a warband...

Now that could mean it has never happened, or no warband has ever survived being attacked by a lion

Well, if history is written by the victors, then the type of people who couldn't figure out how to use weapons to defend against animals seem especially unlikely to write history.

[TomVeil]

Originally posted by notyoueither


You can get up to 5 xp with animals, and then 10 with barbs. To get beyond 10 you need a civ to beat on.

Yeah, what you said.

[Ribannah]

My full-health +10% chariot was just killed by a lion ...

[vmxa1]

Wow lions sometimes do not even kill scouts. That is some bad roll.