Getting very pissed off

[Gray_Lensman]

Originally posted by Franklinnoble
Don't expect much help around here. All the folks with any weight to throw around are Firaxis stooges who don't want to lose their beta tester status.

Reading through these threads, there is a lot of truth in this statement. So far the only thing I've seen that intriques me with this latest incarnation is the fact that it appears to be played out on an actual spherical surface... but that's not enough to entice me to buy it, especially with the numerous installation problems I've been able to find after weeding them out from all the above mentioned stooge answers. Also, Spearmen are still able to defeat a tank... (seen in thread already)... C'mon, give me a break... This should have been nixed as a design fix in Civ 2, yet it's still in their combat system for Civ 4. I usually like to peruse independant web sites for information on games... but this site may be too tainted to be called independant anymore... Informative maybe, but not independant.

[Imran Siddiqui]

I don't think Sid wrote the copy protection, but I do think he could have vetoed it if he cared. I don't think there's a distributor in the world that could have made Civilization 4 into a flop. Firaxis could tomorrow issue a patch that disables the CD check, if they felt like it. They won't, but if they felt it were in their best interest, they would.

Um... yeah. A publisher would really pick up Firaxis (no matter how big Sid was) if they released a no-CD crack for their game. Most games these days have copy protection. I don't think anyone could nix that. Hell, its not like Will Wright, Bruce Shelley, et all have thrown their weight around and gotten copy protection removed from their disks.

Furthermore, I'm sure most designers are supportive of copy protection schemes. They aren't perfect, but if they even hinder one pirate, I'm sure they believe it's worth it.

[Gaal Dornik]

Why not use a noCD patch. Search, there are some on the net. I know because *cough* "my friend" is using a working one.

IIRC it doesnt even change the .exe, so technically its completely legal. On the other hand i dont know how exactly its working, so it could just as well violate the EULA.

[Gelondil]

Originally posted by Gray_Lensman


Reading through these threads, there is a lot of truth in this statement. So far the only thing I've seen that intriques me with this latest incarnation is the fact that it appears to be played out on an actual spherical surface... but that's not enough to entice me to buy it, especially with the numerous installation problems I've been able to find after weeding them out from all the above mentioned stooge answers. Also, Spearmen are still able to defeat a tank... (seen in thread already)... C'mon, give me a break... This should have been nixed as a design fix in Civ 2, yet it's still in their combat system for Civ 4.

The game isn't actually played on a spherical surface, just the tiles at the poles are compressed and the ones at the equator are stretched when you zoom out to global view.

Installation issues may be a very good reason not to purchase a game, but absolutely don't let the "tank vs spearmen" stop you.

You have to get the battle in context. First, the spearmen HAD to be in a city or fortified in a hill/fort so figure they were using guerilla tactics not just standing there waiting to be shot at. Second, assuming tank was at full health, the spearmen were probably battle-hardened soldiers with years experience defending the territory they are on, including a few turns to "fortify" (which IRL would have included pit-traps for those tanks). A fully promoted/fortified unit defending a large city gets a net 50+75+25+60 = +210% bonus, or about triple it's defense power. Even then, they'd probably only win 1/10 the time, and be almost dead themselves.

[Sabre2th]

If Firaxis completely removed the ability for old units to win, it would defeat the purpose of having a combat system. That being said, I very rarely see a unit with a lower strength rating (after defense modifiers and whatnot) win a battle, even relatively close ones.

As for the installation issues and graphics problems... I obviously can't know for sure, but those are likely just a (very) vocal minority. Even if they are a majority, Firaxis is working on a patch to resolve the problems. (Though I'm convinced that a lot of the problems posted are simply people not properly maintaining their systems or not reading the requirements)

[Thud]

Just as a note, most games these days come in a book with a paper sleeve. Its one of the changes that the smaller box sizes are largely responsible for.

[BleckLord]

I am about to be viciously mean to the Firaxis loyalists on these forums. If you don't want to be ridiculed and stereotyped, please skip reading my post.


I'm surprised we haven't had a post from a Firaxis defender yet. I can see it in my mind:

tsuraan,

I'm surprised you didn't know that you were supposed to wait to buy the game untill its finished ..err.. patched i mean. Doesn't everyone know that? Like, duh, don't you spend the better part of your life on the Apolyton forum?

Copy protection doesn't work. The people who want to illegally copy the game will. The people who want to legally copy the game (for back up) can't. The people who run into problems b/c of the copy protection will just get skr3wed.

Perhaps someone here has read something about Sony/BMG copy protected CDs recently. I'll leave that for y'all to ponder.

[Sabre2th]

Originally posted by BleckLord
Copy protection doesn't work. The people who want to illegally copy the game will. The people who want to legally copy the game (for back up) can't. The people who run into problems b/c of the copy protection will just get skr3wed.

Perhaps someone here has read something about Sony/BMG copy protected CDs recently. I'll leave that for y'all to ponder.

It's a gray area. Copy protection could very well be useful in stopping casual pirates. No amount of protection will stop determined, computer-savvy people, but I'm sure publishers think it's worth it even if it only stops a few people.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Indeed.. I'm sure if it even stops ONE person, the publishers would think its worth it. Yes, a lot of the issue is money, but on this issue, it is also a moral stance.

[BleckLord]

Copy protection could very well be useful in stopping casual pirates

True, it may stop casual pirates. The question is: do the benefits of stopping 'casual' pirates justify including copy protection?


Case Study: Sony

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=27426

http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/79491/sony-drm-company-declares-the-issue-old-news.html

Is Sony's copy protection strategy effective? No, the records protected by this technology are available on file sharing services.

Does Sony's copy protection infringe upon user's rights to fair use? I think so. If I buy a CD then I feel I should have the right to use it with any digital media player I want, make as many copies for personal use as I desire, and NOT HAVE MALWARE INSTALLED ON MY COMPUTER.


Piracy is illegal and wrong, but current copy protection often forces good, law abiding people to break the DMCA in order to exercise their legitimate fair use rights. Meanwhile, the true criminals continue to pirate 'protected' content without breaking a sweat.

EDIT: in that it was brought up, yes it is a moral question? Do you believe that the majority of people are good enough not to steal your product?

[seebs]

I would get your disks exchanged. I do not believe both disks are supposed to be copy-protected, even! I haven't had any trouble reading them yet, so it seems more likely that you have bad disks.

FWIW, I was very glad to get paper CD folders and a reasonably large manual, instead of jewel cases and a quick reference card telling me the game is "self-explanatory".