Too much affect from religion?

[vmxa1]

I posted this comment in anoher thread, but it seemed to have gotten overlooked as there was another point raised.

I would prefer to see the impact of not being in their religion reduced. They seem to like to dial you up and ask you to stop dealing with X too much.

It is annoying and makes little sense to me. We do not have an embargo and we do trade with countries we do not like.

I can see a very small impact, but not the open hostility we currently have.

Yes I know there is some of that in the real world, but not every country and even if it was correct, it is not good for the game.

Maybe it is just be, but I dislike the frequent calls for me to stop trading with so and so. At least offer me a reward. some cash some tech, something to make me want to go along.

Not just because I know you.

[dearmad]

I disagree. PLenty of + offsets to balance diplo- and I think being freinds with everyone is unrealistic, especially if your nation is involved in the world at all.

[vmxa1]

Ok you disagree, but why? Do you see it has fun to have them ask you to give up deals over and over? No recompense or anything? You are very easy. Me I am sort of mean.

I am not interested in offset, that is a seperate issue. Being friends with everyone or not is a red hering, what does it have to do with my objections?

I am fine with them not liking me, just stop asking to break deals.

[Peets]

Well, I'm around 1100AC and I only got the question once. (Playing with 10 total on a huge map, epic game lenght)

[liamburke]

Uh...have you been paying attention to world politics?

[PLATO]

I think that a -4 for not being the same religion is a bit excessive. Although differing religions in RL do produce some cultural tensions, they do not have this major an impact. Perhaps in ancient times this is appropriate, but certainly this effect should diminish over time as civilizations become more culturally and religiously tolerent.

[Arnelos]

Originally posted by PLATO
I think that a -4 for not being the same religion is a bit excessive. Although differing religions in RL do produce some cultural tensions, they do not have this major an impact. Perhaps in ancient times this is appropriate, but certainly this effect should diminish over time as civilizations become more culturally and religiously tolerent.

Although I think he overstates the case (especially in the latter sections of his work), you should read Sam Huntington's "Clash of Civilizations".

Civilizational/Religious conflict is not dead. The only reason we have the illusion of its recedence in modern times is that the planet was increasingly dominated by a handful Christian/Western imperial powers. Global politics was dominated by the conflicts between these powers and their internal squabbles were typically non-religious in nature. With non-Christian/non-Western powers re-asserting their place in the world over the past century, religious and civilizational differences have become increasingly relevant in global politics.

Again, I think Huntington rather overstates the case for civilization/religious conflict in his book and essays, but he's spot on that this is the current trend. The reason I think he overstates it is that he seems to assert that religious differences are even more important than good old realpolitic, which I think is clearly false.

Saudi Arabia and the United States (for instance) will continue to pursue a strategic partnership on SOME things because it's in their mutual self interest, even if religious issues cause some problems. Likewise with many other partnerships founded on mutual self interest in our world, crossing religious or civilizational lines.

I honestly don't think the -2 and -4 (the two strengths I've seen) is too much in Civ4. There are SO MANY OTHER +'s and -'s, that the religious difference is important (as it should be), but can certainly be overcome by the currents of geopolitics.

[Mr. President]

It's funny how this thread is on the same forum page as the other one which says the religions aren't different enough / don't play differently enough in game.

Edit: By the bye, I think the United States and Saudi Arabia have at least a -4 relations modifier. With Indonesia it's smaller at the governmental level but bigger at the "man on the street" level.

[playshogi]

It is kind of annoying to have an AI civ pop up to ask you to stop trading with somebody. It's annoying because the game is forcing you to make a strategic choice and when you are in that screen you can't check to see what kind of deal you have with the other AI. It's like you have to write down all your d.eals so you can know what you are giving up if you agree to break the deal.

[kimmygibler]

It should be -4 in ancient times. When either civ is using religious freedom civic it should go down -3 if one civ is using it, and -2 if both are.

[ayronis]

Great post Arny

[Peets]

Originally posted by playshogi
It is kind of annoying to have an AI civ pop up to ask you to stop trading with somebody. It's annoying because the game is forcing you to make a strategic choice and when you are in that screen you can't check to see what kind of deal you have with the other AI. It's like you have to write down all your d.eals so you can know what you are giving up if you agree to break the deal.

I only had it once and I'm around year 1200AD...
I think you are overreacting.