Catapults and Artillery

[mountainlion2]

Doesn't attacking with arty units seem wasteful? Bombardment is what arty is for, to reach out and touch someone without putting the arty in harms way. To only get that effect when you attack directly seems more like what a bomb or a missile should do, not an arty piece.

I only use arty for city defenses, or if I'm in a bit of a spot they're my wooden cruise missiles, that I might get back if I'm lucky.

I liked the way Civ3 handles arty much better. If you couple that with the promotion system the arty would be way cool. Instead of getting xp from direct attacking units should have to make a to-hit role and gain xp from successful hits. Aiming arty isn't easy and takes a bit of practice, even with a computer. This way the units would be good for more than one attack

[DeepO]

Originally posted by mountainlion2
Doesn't attacking with arty units seem wasteful? Bombardment is what arty is for, to reach out and touch someone without putting the arty in harms way. To only get that effect when you attack directly seems more like what a bomb or a missile should do, not an arty piece.

Perhaps it is not fully modeled after the real world, but who cares? cats are an excellent gameplay element. If you don't heavily rely on them yet, wait until you're playing the higher levels. Cats are both needed to fend of attacks, and to soften up targets before sending in the main force.

DeepO

[mountainlion2]

Your right, I don't heavily rely on them, but then I haven't played a game into the later ages yet. I just got the game to run so I could play it It just means my playing style will change, and I might start relying more on aircraft.

Bombardment was a great part of the combat element in Civ3 and made combat more interesting. Civ4's combat system is even better than Civ3, but without the ability to bombard other squares you lose some depth from the combat system. (I mean that both figuratively and literally. the range of the arty pieces and the strategy that went along with it).

My War College will know have to go back and reevaluate strategies

[Fried-Psitalon]

The thing about technological eras is that they are exactly as long as you choose to make them; I can make the era of muskets last for 10 turns if I research all the precursors to rocket up to rifling and cavalry, or if I decide to check out all the economic/social techs (Liberalism, Economics, Nationalism, etc,etc) I can make the era of Muskets last for 50 turns. The same thing can be said for any unit and era, really. It isn't always the "right" answer to rush for the next major military unit... sometimes the ability to support A LOT of the previous one is more potent.

[MattPilot]

I'm indifferent about the way Civ4 handles bombard units.


For one thing i really do miss bombarding improvements (air units still can). I also miss the reach-out-and-touch-someone aspect where you ain't putting your units in harms way.


On the other hand, it would be a gamebreaker to have it civ3 style. Considering that Artys can cause a lot of collateral damage, a "stack" with arty's & good defenders would be invincible. Now if that arty had to come out in "open" combat, it would be risking destruction.

Artys are relatively cheap - I don't mind building them as "cruise missiles" and sending them after stacks to soften them up. But it only makes sense if the stack has at least 5 units and you are actually able to attack the weakend stack with other units. Otherwise they will just heal and you wasted an arty.

As for the promotions i'm using. For City attack i use the city promotion feature (if i can get at least 2 promotions), otherwise i use the barrage promotion.
Let me tell ya - a Level 4 barrage promoted unit (+100%) sure kicks some arse.

[Jon Shafer]

Yep... Cannons are very powerful and if you go for them first they can be around for a while and be a HUGE factor in the world.

[sgrig]

Does anyone else think that Cannons come in too late in the game? I mean catapults seem to rule until industrial age and cannons are rather quickly replaced by artillery. I would prefer cannons to become available some time during Rennaisance period.

[MattPilot]

Agreed. Infact the entire "Rifleman" period comes and goes to quick.

Last game i didn't even build one granadier because there never was a threat from riflemen. They all upgraded to infantry within a few turns.

[alva]

Does anyone else think that Cannons come in too late in the game?

Hehe, that took long, much longer that I had anticipated.

Where's Solver when you need him.

It's not that bad though, catapults start of fairly strong but rather expensive but it can win it's early battles.
Later on it's chances to survive gradually go down but so does it cost, relatively speaking anyway.

[jkp1187]

Okay, maybe I'm blind, but I've placed a catapault next to an enemy city at war, and have NOT seen this "bombard" button appear. What am I doing wrong? Help!

[mountainlion2]

Does the City have an fortifications? above the city name there will be a little wall with a percent sign and number if the city does indeed have fortifications. If the city does not have fortifications than there will be no wall or number and the bombard button will not appear in the cat's order panel. Which means the cat will have to direct attack or just "send in the troops".

[DrrD]

Seige is also useful defending a city. If the attacker has a big stack, you can attack with your seige from the city. Even though it may die, it will weaken the stack alot due to collateral damage, and the loss of the seige doesn't make that much difference in the final attack if you've got good defenders.

[MattPilot]

problem with that is, you will need some attackers to follow up on the "siege-suicide" attack. Otherwise the attackers will just sit there and regain their health.

[jkp1187]

Originally posted by mountainlion2
Does the City have an fortifications? above the city name there will be a little wall with a percent sign and number if the city does indeed have fortifications. If the city does not have fortifications than there will be no wall or number and the bombard button will not appear in the cat's order panel. Which means the cat will have to direct attack or just "send in the troops".

That explains it. It was a piddling size 3 Barbarian-founded city. Probably no walls/defenses of any kind.

[DrrD]

Originally posted by MattPilot
problem with that is, you will need some attackers to follow up on the "siege-suicide" attack. Otherwise the attackers will just sit there and regain their health.

True, but often delay is what you want, delay to build more units and rush them into the beseiged city. If you make the stack heal for 3 turns you may be in good shape.