How do Sell/demolish improvements?

[Mace]

Originally posted by DeepO

That's certainly in, and it keeps on happening until late in the game if you don't improve a tile.

I'm glad you saw this too, and I wasn't having hallucinations.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by seebs
On the general question of demolishing improvements... I'd like to see at least a way to deal with obsoleted improvements (say, a coal plant when you have hydro). I was going to do more with this, but for reasons I can't explain, my Three Gorges Dam had no effect at all.

I think it increases shield output for all your cities, but does not do the old 'free power plant.'

I think this way is better in that you get both (pp and TGD effect).

[seebs]

Originally posted by notyoueither


I think it increases shield output for all your cities, but does not do the old 'free power plant.'

I think this way is better in that you get both (pp and TGD effect).

Maybe, but it SAYS it gives a free hydro plant in every city. I actually avoided building hydro plants based on this...

[Harovan]

Originally posted by DeepO
SR, remember the dotted map of already forested tiles I created in GS just to get the bonus from each tile exactly once? That is not a hoop someone should need to jump through to get maximum efficiency. And if it is in, there is no other option than to use it.

Make a forest consume a worker, thus costing more than you can gain? Sadly, that is not entirely true. There will always be cases where this is exploitable. You basically have the option to invest a lot more in rushes than normal. This investment can come at a time where you need it (e.g. for rushing the Internet or Space elevator: just make sure you've got plenty of workers beforehand, and forest and deforest a complete city in one or two turns... voila, instant Internet).

Also, and this might be one of the biggest problems: it basically is a trade between different 'investments'. Workers are partly built using food, which transform into hammers (and given bonusses you might receive a lot of hammers too, in the right circumstances a forest can give you the equivalent of 100+ hpt). That in itself is not really a problem, only the AI will never be able to do it.

And don't tell me this kind of MMing is fun, and yes, it is MMing. You need to do a lot of different actions, planned out over years, to get an efficient result.

What does the current system give? A more equal bunch of tactics available for players and AIs alike. A hugely increased strategical decision, where saving forests for health and lumbermills is truely a cost to your early game. No difference between MP and SP. No problems with e.g. players building forest-highways in their empires for Woodsman II defenders, something the AI can't deal with. Less workers to run around with, so a faster gameplay. Etc...

So was it possible to include the foresting? Sure. And there are arguments in favour of it. I think the right choice was made, though.

DeepO

I don't want to bother with this lumberjack exploit ****. To hell with gained shields, or hammers for that matter. Screw that. Make chopped forest gain ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!

But give me back forest planting!

[DeepO]

Heh... that's basically the tradeoff, isn't it. Either you have forest chopping giving bonusses, or you can have forest planting without chopping. I prefer to have the chopping in as it does give you more choices... you're going more for the 'beauty' of having forests around if you so wish. I can understand that viewpoint easily.

DeepO

[Harovan]

I want something nice to look at in the late game. These roads and especially railroads are absolutely hideous. Unlike the rest of the game.

[Harovan]

By the way, chopping forest giving bonuses is an exploit in itself in games against the AI. The AI does not carefully aim its chops. It chops when it chops. Even if there is only one shield - oops - hammer in the queue left.

[DeepO]

SR, might I suggest you give the Indians a try? Their fast workers mean that you can have minimal roadnets (that is actually the real benefit of fast workers: no need for roads to move your workers around). RRs are still needed on mines and lumber mills, but nowhere else

DeepO

[DeepO]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
By the way, chopping forest giving bonuses is an exploit in itself in games against the AI. The AI does not carefully aim its chops. It chops when it chops. Even if there is only one shield - oops - hammer in the queue left.

Yes, but now that queues overflow that is less of an issue. It used to be very bad, now chops are reasonably directed by the AI, simply because the system itself has improved. If only they would leave some forests alone... (they do focus on defensive problems first, though. Forests near cities are the first to go)

DeepO

[Harovan]

Originally posted by DeepO
SR, might I suggest you give the Indians a try? Their fast workers mean that you can have minimal roadnets (that is actually the real benefit of fast workers: no need for roads to move your workers around). RRs are still needed on mines and lumber mills, but nowhere else

DeepO

Sticking with only one civ to avoid an aesthetical shortcoming is not a solution, now is it?

The artists did generally a good job in this game, but who designed the railroads, with intercity connections displayed interrupted like this, did certainly a poor job.

[DeepO]

Yeah, there are more of these kind of graphical glitches still present. Also with how roads and buildings should 'circle around' rivers and improvements... Don't get too upset, this is not so much a graphics prolem, as it is an graphic engine glitch. I'm sure this will get patched.

In your situation, it looks like 2 tiles don't have the right connections to each other. One connection going wrong, and the whole display messes up.

DeepO

[Shr3dZ]

You CAN get forests back, they grow back by themselves... so youd hafta leave some forests in the undeveloped land between your cities, then create a blank-slate tile and wait for the forest to spread. Dont know how long that takes but from what I gather at least its possible.

[MattPilot]

No difference between MP and SP. No problems with e.g. players building forest-highways in their empires for Woodsman II defenders, something the AI can't deal with. Less workers to run around with, so a faster gameplay. Etc...

I hadn't considered that, DeepO. "forest highways" certainly is the biggest exploit and warents reconsideration of my whole plant forest stance.


On a different note ..... In my current mod i increased forest growth from "8" to "50". Growth now isn't overwhelming, but it does happen more than just once or twice during the game now. So i'm happy with that.

[Traelin]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
I don't think the missing destroy building option is an issue anymore. It was based on a mistake, the health malus does not remain when the old plant is replaced. I could care less about old buildings in my cities, as long as they don't generate a malus or cost upkeep.

But bring back forest planting! Screw them lumbermills.

And who the heck had the glorious idea of a pigtailed Catherine?

The only reason I still think it's an issue is because you can still have nuclear meltdowns, even if you have built Three Gorges and have automatic power on the continent. Just last night I had a meltdown. I cleaned it up and went to look for all remaining cities with nuke plants and was surprised to find that I couldn't axe them.

Oh well, I guess I'm never going to be building nuke plants again, not when I am almost guaranteed to get Three Gorges in the later game (i.e., with my style of play). That seems to me to be silly that I can't even build something and reap its benefits for an albeit short period of time, just like we've done with coal plants IRL.

[Traelin]

Originally posted by seebs


Maybe, but it SAYS it gives a free hydro plant in every city. I actually avoided building hydro plants based on this...

It doesn't give a free hydro plant, it gives you Power in every city on the same continent. If it gave you a free hydro plant, I wouldn't have had that nuke meltdown last night.