ATI is not the problem, Firaxis is

[BleckLord]

Comte,

It seems like everyone wants to sit here and tell you off, so I thought that I should add my comments and support.

1.) The official Civ4 site did a very poor job of conveying the information I wanted about my ATI card issue. Yes the support site was added, but well after I had the problem.

2.) I haven't had any popups on Apolyton, and I'm using good ole' IE (don't know why, I usually use Opera). I don't feel like I should be subjected to popups in order to get forum based support for a software title I paid money for. Officially hosted or not.

3.) The Civ4 launch stands out in my mind as my worst PC game bug experience. Perhaps this is because of my high level of anticipation, or perhaps it has truely been my worst experience.

4.) The ball has been dropped. I will not hear anyone say otherwise. First the game won't start, now it crashes every ten to thirty minutes. The problem is that we, as consumers, accept rush releases and buggy product because they can be fixed or patched. Just because it can be fixed doesn't mean that it should be shipped broken.

5.) Phone and email support alone are not enough. As mentioned, neither publisher or producer have the resources to directly interface with everyone; therefore, they need an effective method of broadcasting information (the internet comes to mind as an ideal method).

Comte, you and I both are in agreement on the Civ4 launch. We want the game, it's awesome, but there are some issues above and beyond what I expect for $54.11.

[BleckLord]

Related to the official support angle:

I continue to see people popping up in random threads, asking for help. That makes me think that there is some disconect between the users and the support mechanism.

I know that I feel disconected. Although my ATI rederer error has been addressed to a certain degree (enough for me to fix it, but perhaps not enough for less apt computer users), I am having trouble finding a thread for a 'random crash to desktop' error.

Can someone tell me what thread to find that issue in?

Thanks All,

Bleck

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Comte
Yes, both games by the same publisher. Can you name another publisher that doesn't have community relations? This is exactly my point, thank you for agreeing with me on it.

Yes, actually I can. Quite a LARGE on as well. They are known as Microsoft. You know them, right?

For Zoo Tycoon 2, they direct you to fan sites when you click on 'Community'. For other games like AOE III, they send you to the specific website, created by the producer of the game (Ensemble Studios in that case).

Do you want to try again?

(Oh, and before you point to the "XBox forums", you should know that they are JUST for XBox games... and don't have any people from the producer on the forums... Hell, they have a forum for GTA and Madden!)

[MortVader]

Originally posted by Willem


Did you by chance have one of those floppy drives that would go out of alignment just by breathing on it?

Luckily no I had two 1541 drives. Both worked perfectly!

I'm still pissed off at Commodore for messing up their company the way they did. They could have been a real contender in today's computer market if it wasn't for their mismanagement.

I totally agree!

[seebs]

3.) The Civ4 launch stands out in my mind as my worst PC game bug experience. Perhaps this is because of my high level of anticipation, or perhaps it has truely been my worst experience.

I have a hard time imagining that. MOO3 and Civ3 were both entirely unplayable at release. MM9 was a joke. Baldur's Gate, which was a very well-maintained game with a developer that stood behind it, had weird graphical glitches and crashes on many systems, and I think I personally found at least three crashing bugs. (Which got fixed.)

My shelves are rich with games which were buggier than this long after they shipped. The final release of Fallout 2 still has game-breaking bugs that just got dropped. TOEE requires two or three sets of third-party patches to be even marginally playable.

Civ4 has erratic crashes under some circumstances, which seem to affect some people a lot more than others.

4.) The ball has been dropped. I will not hear anyone say otherwise. First the game won't start, now it crashes every ten to thirty minutes. The problem is that we, as consumers, accept rush releases and buggy product because they can be fixed or patched. Just because it can be fixed doesn't mean that it should be shipped broken.

Every ten to thirty minutes? I played for something like 7 hours before I saw a single crash. I am not gonna say that this is flawless, but it's above average for a PC game, certainly. Normally, if I want to play a game, I wait until it's been out for a week or two, so I can get the initial patches. I loaded Civ4 on a lark, and was rather surprised that it ran.

[BleckLord]

seebs

I never even tried MOO3, I didn't like MOO2. Civ3 was well behaved by the time I played it, and thats my point, I've never wanted to play a game as much as I want to play Civ4. I think that desire has heightened my sensitivity to the problems. Whats MM9?

As far as bad experiences go, I've had my share. And if I truely think logically about past games, Planetside was the worst. And you know what, I blame the devs and Sony for PS too! A lot more than I will blame Firaxis once this gets finished, cause they nerfed the Vanu and gave away the alien tech. BOO planetside.

I too played for a long time before my first crash. But as I've indicated, the crash frequency has dramatically increased. My game now craps out on every turn nearly.

[Imran Siddiqui]

I'm assuming MM9 is Might and Magic 9. Speak of the number '9', Ultima 9 was far buggier than Civ4. Man, that was horrid. Fallout 2 was also super big ridden, though I sludged through because I was hit with only the minor bugs (couldn't avoid the car disappearing bug though).

[Duds_2k]

Originally posted by nhall70
Interesting...you guys (troyjgrice and Comte) are so predictable.

With the release of every new game (all genres) the forums fill up with furious people who have this problem or that problem ranging from "it doesn't run" to "it doesn't run well enough to suit me" or "it runs fine but I'm not entertained".

Then comes the ferocious attack on the developers who were too lazy or too careless to make the game work for YOU...and you know EXACTLY who is to blame!

It gets really boring. I have the "ATI renderer" bug. So what...who cares. While you're pounding your fist at the injustice of it all, I'll be playing the game soon enough.

For the price of dinner and a movie, I'll have hundreds of hours of entertainment at my disposal. It will take me less time to apply the workaround than it takes to stand in line at the movies!

Of course, I can see right through you. In real life, you're probably reasonable people. But the 'vent'ernet has a way of making people act out of character. If nobody can see your face, you can say anything you want! At least, I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt.

The funny thing is that my post here contributes virtually nothing to this forum...but neither does yours.

Cheers.

Except that while said fix gets you into the game it doesn't solve the crippling slowness, the frequent BSODs and CTDs, the hillarious graphical bugs and the fact that it can barely play an mp3.

[mckaskle]

Originally posted by seebs

Every ten to thirty minutes? I played for something like 7 hours before I saw a single crash. I am not gonna say that this is flawless, but it's above average for a PC game, certainly. Normally, if I want to play a game, I wait until it's been out for a week or two, so I can get the initial patches. I loaded Civ4 on a lark, and was rather surprised that it ran.

I just wanted to add that I have very frequent crashes and/or random lockups with Civ IV. Usually, I'll have to reboot my computer about every 45-60 minutes. My most frequent problem is the game will just freeze. Usually when I learn a new tech. I'll hear Leonard Nimoy (it is hime right?), but the new tech window won't display, and I am unable to continue. It doesn't happen every time I learn a tech. Sometimes alt-tab out and back will cause the window to appear, but usually I'll just get a solid black screen at that point. When that happens, I can't even get the Task manager up with Ctrl-Alt-Del. I have to do a hard reboot.

Other times, I'll have a similar issue when I end a turn. It just freezes during the AI turns. I'm not sure if it gets stuck in an infinite loop or something, but it never returns control to me. To test this, I left it running overnight once when this happened, and in the morning it still wasn't my turn :P

I have yet to complete a full game because it wall ALWAYS reach a point somehwere in the mid to late game stages where my end turn results in a freeze. I have tried reloading saved games to try different orders for units and productions, but it will always freeze.

Hopefully, there will be a patch soon, because as of now it is uninstalled, and I guess I'll be arguing with the store manager for my money back. Which is a shame, because I remember back in the day when you could buy whatever game MicroProse just released and have a blast with it because it came from Sid, and while Civ IV is fun when it works, I will not play a game that requires me to reboot my computer every 45 minutes to continue.

[mountainlion2]

Yes, it is Spock himself.

[Toe Blake]

I have a system that meets and exceeds all criteria, has been cleaned, tweaked and updated (including ALL drivers) and yet I have experienced random and frequent CTDs right off the bat. What was worse, after a couple of these unpredictable and unscheduled interruptions, my computer then informed me that it could find "no 3D device" any more. Translation -- no video card!!

Fortunately, I was able to restore my system and get everything back to "normal." However, CivIV will remain OFF my system until it gets patched appropriately.

Have I had problems with other games before? Yes, certainly. Do I expect the odd glitch? Of course. Having played computer games since Day One I understand these things. Could CivIV benefited from further testing? Quite probably. Is it a great game? I loved what I saw, but I've never had a game that scared me enough to remove it from my hard drive before.

I desperately want to play this game and love this game. But I bristle at those who are dismissive of the real problems this game has presented to some folks who have systems that are supposed to be more than adequate. There are problems, and it ain't just with OUR machines!

The good news is, I received a swift reply from Firaxis when I wrote to express my dismay. I sent my dxdiag file to them as requested, and am hopeful there will be some "joy" there. Until then, I shall simply wait and hope this game will be all it could be.

[skraut]

I'm waiting for some review site to have the balls to give it a 0 (ZERO) out of 5, out of 10, out of 100, because they can't get it to work, just like I can't.

Only then will we see any response from Take 2. Until then, they just gloat over all the raving reviews of their paperweight.

[Stromprophet]

Originally posted by skraut
I'm waiting for some review site to have the balls to give it a 0 (ZERO) out of 5, out of 10, out of 100, because they can't get it to work, just like I can't.

Only then will we see any response from Take 2. Until then, they just gloat over all the raving reviews of their paperweight.

You'd be wrong because all the gamesites of any value already cast there vote (i.e. gamespot, ign, etc) and their average review was 94%. They probably have top of the line comps too so they don't see it the same as say we with average pcs.

Anyway, it is a good game. I've been playing with all the little bugs, but it's still really enjoyable.

[tulkas12]

It is a good game.

My local best buy won't even carry it until it gets fixed though... which I find halirious.

I think that 2k games is on my bad list though... this is my first experience with them and its not very good. I love the guys at Firaxis though and I do hope things start to look up for them because I'm sure they feel responsible for all this.

I think that the main issue is that there are so many variables when it comes to this kind of thing...I did one thing and the game runs ok (minus the apparent memory leak).

[Stromprophet]

2k Published Pirates! too didn't they? Or are they just responsible for it now? I went to their website and they had a list of games with patches and stuff and Pirates! was on there. That game worked great on my PC.