ATI is not the problem, Firaxis is

[Imran Siddiqui]

Three, the reason I bring up the pop-ups and such is because it is entirely unprofessional for Firaxis/2k to dump community management onto fansites like they have done. It's unfair to the fansites and unfair to the consumers.

I DOUBT you'll have the fansites agree. All the new settlers brings money. And Firaxis says we have email and telephone support. Remember, their distributor is Take2, whose major money making game, Grand Theft Auto (you know that one which has sold FAR more than Civ has) doesn't have any official forums as well.

If a game like GTA (made by Rockstar North) doesn't have forums, why should it be expected of a much smaller outfit like Firaxis.

One, the pop-ups don't bother me because I'm using Firefox

Could have fooled me:

[q=Comte]how are they supposed to find a fix buried on a site that, need I remind you has pop-up ads?[/q]

[q=Comte]And beyond that, we're arguing about this on a site with pop-ups. Pop ups. [/q]

Apparenly they do bother you. Or else you are deliberately making a mountain out of... well... nothing. You are the first person to complain about the pop ups of Poly.

none of these, even the B-List title, werereleased with this many severe bugs for this many users

Civ3 came out in the last 2 years, right? Did you buy that game? This version has far less bugs than Civ3. And Civ2 had a number of patches as well, IIRC (thought that came out in the mid-late 90s).

And are you serious with Half Life 2? Did you SEE the outrage that occured with the Steam system? I can't believe that you are saying HL2 didn't have any major technical problems reported!! And you expect people to take anything else you say seriously?

[Imran Siddiqui]

This site has been around for a long, long time.

Since 1998 (when the merger occured). And I've been around a couple months afterward .

That was when SMAC was coming out. Firaxis did have an official forum for that game (for a little bit). The forum became so poisionous, that I'm sure it disuaded Firaxis from trying it again.. and they never have had a forum since then.

[Willem]

Originally posted by Comte
My SMAC still has the same sound stuttering problem it had the day I bought it.

Hey, I didn't say they were perfect, but they're the best I've ever dealt with. Incidentally my SMAC has no problems on that score. I even got a patch for it a few years back to resolve any problems I might have running it on XP, long after EA stopped selling it. Not to many companies these days would still provide support for an out of print title.

[Comte]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Three, the reason I bring up the pop-ups and such is because it is entirely unprofessional for Firaxis/2k to dump community management onto fansites like they have done. It's unfair to the fansites and unfair to the consumers.

I DOUBT you'll have the fansites agree. All the new settlers brings money. And Firaxis says we have email and telephone support. Remember, their distributor is Take2, whose major money making game, Grand Theft Auto (you know that one which has sold FAR more than Civ has) doesn't have any official forums as well.

If a game like GTA (made by Rockstar North) doesn't have forums, why should it be expected of a much smaller outfit like Firaxis.

You are right, 2K is a terrible publsiher, which has kind of been one of the points behind this whole thread, hasn't it?

The efficacy of the telephone and email support has already been discussed. Or are you saying that Firaxis welcomes calls and emails from the Apolyton owners/operators? How generous of them.

And weather or not the fan sites feel that having the responsibility of costomer relations dropped in their laps is unprofessional or not, it doesn't change the fact that it's still unprofessional.

One, the pop-ups don't bother me because I'm using Firefox

Could have fooled me:

[q=Comte]how are they supposed to find a fix buried on a site that, need I remind you has pop-up ads?[/q]

[q=Comte]And beyond that, we're arguing about this on a site with pop-ups. Pop ups. [/q]

Apparenly they do bother you. Or else you are deliberately making a mountain out of... well... nothing. You are the first person to complain about the pop ups of Poly.

Oh, it does bother me, just not int he way people were taking it to mean. It doesn't bother me in the fact that they aren't all up in my face, it bothers me because of how staggering and profoundly unprofessional it is. Something you seem to be having trouble understanding.

none of these, even the B-List title, werereleased with this many severe bugs for this many users

Civ3 came out in the last 2 years, right? Did you buy that game? This version has far less bugs than Civ3. And Civ2 had a number of patches as well, IIRC (thought that came out in the mid-late 90s).

And are you serious with Half Life 2? Did you SEE the outrage that occured with the Steam system? I can't believe that you are saying HL2 didn't have any major technical problems reported!! And you expect people to take anything else you say seriously?

Any outrages over the delivery and authentication system for HL2 are secondary to the fact that the game worked. Hell, it even *installed*, fancy that. The complaints about Steam that I saw primarily revolved around people complaining that they had to use it at all, not that it didn't work.

I can understand a developer not wanting to have their own forums because of how vitrioic they can become. Back int he day the Black Isle forums became so intensely clique ridden and spiteful that they were temporarily shut down. That said, Obsidian, which was founded by Black Isle alumni, the very same people who were burned in effigy on the BI forums, set up a forum despite their misgivings because it was the professional thing to do.

[Comte]

Originally posted by Willem


Hey, I didn't say they were perfect, but they're the best I've ever dealt with. Incidentally my SMAC has no problems on that score. I even got a patch for it a few years back to resolve any problems I might have running it on XP, long after EA stopped selling it. Not to many companies these days would still provide support for an out of print title.

It was a low-blow, all games have unfinished content and unfixed bugs. I didn't mean anything by it.

[Comte]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
I DOUBT you'll have the fansites agree. All the new settlers brings money.

One last thing, I have to reply to this. Are you seriously arguing that it's OK to not have official community relations or management because fan sites make money off banner ads? Please, please tell me I'm not reading this right.

[Franklinnoble]

Originally posted by Comte


In conclusion, I'm rational, I'm not angry, I'm only barely frustrated. I'm being reasonable and voicing my complaints about the fact that I paid money for a product that is very clearly broken for a great many people. I do not deserve to be insulted because I bought a game that breaks for me and not for you. I do not deserve to be dismissed with a wave of the hand by fans that insist there is, in fact, no problem at all simply because it works for them. I do not believe that voicing my opinion and disatisfaction with a product that I paid for makes me a troll or a malcontent, it makes me a user who did not get what they paid for and is stuck with a shoddy product until an official fix is found for my problems. A fix that may or may not ever come, I can't know if there is one on its way or not, since there is no official community relations to keep me informed.

Well said.

[Willem]

Originally posted by Comte
The efficacy of the telephone and email support has already been discussed.

Geez what do you expect, the problem that came up with the ATI cards caught them off guard. They weren't prepared to deal with an unexpected bug that affected so many systems, how could they? 2-3 million copies were just sold and many of those were ATI users that ran into problems. They probably had thousands of people trying to get help to resolve their issues. They couldn't possibly deal with everyone on a one to one basis, like customers would have liked. They just wouldn't have had enough staff in order to do it.

But they were here and over at CivFanatics trying to deal with it as best they could, and they got a fix out pretty quickly too. Even Soren the lead programmer was here trying to help sort things out.

[Imran Siddiqui]

And weather or not the fan sites feel that having the responsibility of costomer relations dropped in their laps is unprofessional or not, it doesn't change the fact that it's still unprofessional.

Please.. because you don't like it doesn't make it 'unprofessional'. Sorry, but you have games like GTA not having official forums (and GTA is probably the highest selling game series ever.. well, perhaps behind the Sims). Official forums aren't a prereq for professionalism, no matter how much you want to bluster. Sorry, but I definetly don't agree with your opinion one bit.

Firaxis has said, look, we don't have forums, but there are these sites that have been around for 7 years. We'll even frequent those websites, so if you don't want to use the offical support, we'll help you anyway.

Sounds very professional to me... but you just want to whine.

Are you seriously arguing that it's OK to not have official community relations or management because fan sites make money off banner ads? Please, please tell me I'm not reading this right.

YOU were the one saying it was unfair on fan sites (I can quote you on it.. wait I did!). Can you just stop and realize what YOU were saying rather than thinking OMG!! LOOK WHAT HE SAID!! WHO NEEDS CONTEXT?!!

[Comte]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Please.. because you don't like it doesn't make it 'unprofessional'. Sorry, but you have games like GTA not having official forums (and GTA is probably the highest selling game series ever.. well, perhaps behind the Sims).

Yes, both games by the same publisher. Can you name another publisher that doesn't have community relations? This is exactly my point, thank you for agreeing with me on it.

[Comte]

Also, there were two parts to what I said about it being unfair. I said it was unfair to the fansites and unfair to the consumers. If you and the fansites agree that it's not unfair to them, we're left with it being unfair to the consumers, which is what I thought you were addressing with your argument about making money from banner ads. Regardless of my confusion on the matter, my point still remains that it is unfair to the consumers, and because fansites might stand to make marginal profits from banner ads does not excuse it or in any way make it acceptable or professional.

[MortVader]

Originally posted by Willem

..while later I got a Commodore 64.

Yes I'm old.

Yeah yeah!

I'm a C64 oldie too! Gotta love that old thing.. Did you know that it was actually Bill Gates who wrote the Commodore Basic operating system? I just found out recently.. blew my mind ;D

Oh well.. back to watching for the postman to deliver CivIV to me..

[feline]

Hmm... I wonder why I am reminded here of some game called KotOR II and Ati graphic cards. It is still gathering dust on a shelve.

Oh yes. On topic: I have to say that the PAK work-around for Civ4 on Ati cards work wonders! And that within a few days of the game release. Keep up the good work!

So now I go back on building them

Tada.

[Willem]

Originally posted by MortVader


Yeah yeah!

I'm a C64 oldie too! Gotta love that old thing.. Did you know that it was actually Bill Gates who wrote the Commodore Basic operating system? I just found out recently.. blew my mind ;D

Oh well.. back to watching for the postman to deliver CivIV to me..

Did you by chance have one of those floppy drives that would go out of alignment just by breathing on it? I had to cut a hole in the bottom of mine so I could access the screws in order to manually adjust the drive housing. I had certain programs in particular that were fairly sensitive to alignment problems that I used for reference. If I got them working then I knew I had things lined up again. It was a real pain sometimes.

I was very pleased when I got my Amiga 500 and didn't have to deal with that anymore.

I'm still pissed off at Commodore for messing up their company the way they did. They could have been a real contender in today's computer market if it wasn't for their mismanagement.

[Nailfoot]

Originally posted by Willem


Did you by chance have one of those floppy drives that would go out of alignment just by breathing on it? I had to cut a hole in the bottom of mine so I could access the screws in order to manually adjust the drive housing. I had certain programs in particular that were fairly sensitive to alignment problems that I used for reference. If I got them working then I knew I had things lined up again. It was a real pain sometimes.

I was very pleased when I got my Amiga 500 and didn't have to deal with that anymore.

I'm still pissed off at Commodore for messing up their company the way they did. They could have been a real contender in today's computer market if it wasn't for their mismanagement.

Hehe! I had TWO 1541 disc drives daisy chained together! I was the ****.