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**DeepO** · October 27, 2005, 13:58

Re: Ok lets start analyzing religion

Originally posted by conmcb25
I played quite a bit yesterday and of course didn't read the manual or the Strat guide I bought

1. Once you "establish" a religion, does it make any sense to switch to another religion? Whether you establish it or not?

Yes, it does. But there are too many reasons possible for doing this. The 2 main ones are
- money: if you control the shrine of a religion, you want to switch to that one which will net you most. You can see how many people in the world follow your religion in the religion advisor.
- diplomacy: civs of the same religion like each other better.

2. What are the benefits of having a state religion vs the various civics options that can affect it?

? I don't understand. There is only one civic where not having a religion is better. The other religious civics require you to have a state religion (and present in your cities!) to give anything.

3. What good does it do you to "spread" your religion amonsgt your neighbors?

You can gain more money, and if they switch to your state religion they will like you better. It will also make it harder to wage war against them.

Again taking into consideration the various civics options that can affect it?

For you, nothing. For them, they can run their civics and if you would spread your state to each city, they have the benefit in all their cities.

Note you can only spread religion with someone you have an open border with as far I could tell yesterday? Is that true?

Yes.

Is there a way around that?

Yes there is. You don't need to spread into their land, any AI civ with your state religion will try to spread it too. And of course there is still natural spread: if you're not big on exploring the world, you can come into contact with any civ that sudednly gets one city with your state religion. Pretty neat when it first happens to you

4. Does it hurt you to have a neighbors religion spread to your cities? Again bounced against the various civics options?

No, except when you go to war later on. Civic has no influence, in fact, for the free religion it is better to have many religions.
Also note that you need a religion to build a temple, but cities with 7 religions can build 7 temples... and 7 cathedrals. Cathedrals are strong buildings, and require a lot of temples.

5. Religion can be spread without missionaries. How exactly does that happen?

Not sure, but trade routes play either a big, or the only role in it.

What has to take place for your religion to spread? Religious temples and other buildings? Your overall culture?

Not sure. You don't need a shrine, but if you build one early, you will see a large increase. But that's about all I can tell you, I haven't looked into that. It's also fun to keep some black boxes around

6. What if you discover a second religion or your neighbor spreads another religion to your city? (You can have more than one religion per city.) Does it hurt your state religion to build the temples and other buildings of the second relgion?

No

Does it help religion somehow overall? (Other than the obvious happiness and cultural benefits.)

money, and to give you the ability to change towards it in case it would benefit diplomatically from it.

7. When conquering a neighboring city I noticed last night that once I sent a missionary there and spread my state religion that the populace calmed down the very next turn. Coincidence or does spreading your religion to newly conquered territories help calm down the populace?

No coincidence, however I'm not sure how large the effect is. Citizens of the state religion of the enemy will dislike you, by adding a religion you converted a couple of them (but not all!) to another religion which doesn't mind the war.

What other questions am I missing and let the deconstruction begin

What other questions

DeepO

**padillah** · October 27, 2005, 14:02

Re: Ok lets start analyzing religion

Originally posted by conmcb25
1. Once you "establish" a religion, does it make any sense to switch to another religion? Whether you establish it or not?

I think religions help with happiness regardless of who caused them. Also, you can only put a "Shrine" if you founded the religion. Plus, you can only build missionaries at Monistaries and you can only have one per religion.

2. What are the benefits of having a state religion vs the various civics options that can affect it?

From the manual (Page 78): Having a state religion tends to make your cities possesing that religion happier and more productive; it also increases the effects of many religious buildings and religious civics.

3. What good does it do you to "spread" your religion amonsgt your neighbors? Again taking into consideration the various civics options that can affect it? Note you can only spread religion with someone you have an open border with as far I could tell yesterday? Is that true? Is there a way around that?

From the manual(page 79): All cities that posses your state religion receive one extra happy face and produce one additional culture per turn.
(page 80) If you control the holy city for a religion (the city with the shrine for that religion), you can see what's going on in any city with that religion, as well as all spaces that city can see.

I wonder if you establish a religion in a city and AFTER get into a war does that city loose your religion?

4. Does it hurt you to have a neighbors religion spread to your cities? Again bounced against the various civics options?

I don't know about "hurt" but that can "see what's going on". (whatever that means.) I wonder if there's an increase in the chance to culture-flip.

5. Religion can be spread without missionaries. How exactly does that happen? What has to take place for your religion to spread? Religious temples and other buildings? Your overall culture?

Trade routes.

6. What if you discover a second religion or your neighbor spreads another religion to your city? (You can have more than one religion per city.) Does it hurt your state religion to build the temples and other buildings of the second relgion? Does it help religion somehow overall? (Other than the obvious happiness and cultural benefits.)

I don't think there's more benefit other than the happiness and culture. And the ability to create a shrine (which could lead to income with a Great Preist).

7. When conquering a neighboring city I noticed last night that once I sent a missionary there and spread my state religion that the populace calmed down the very next turn. Coincidence or does spreading your religion to newly conquered territories help calm down the populace?

I think that may be a side effect of how many happy faces are generated by your state religion. That's a wonderful way to quell an uprising in one move. Thanks for that!

Tom P.
"If you are flamable and have legs you are never blocking a fire exit." - Mitch Hedberg

**padillah** · October 27, 2005, 14:10

Re: Re: Ok lets start analyzing religion

Originally posted by DeepO

Note you can only spread religion with someone you have an open border with as far I could tell yesterday? Is that true?

Yes.

According to the manual religion will spread through "contact" with a holy city (i.e. trade routes). I don't know if you want to consider this "spreading" the religion 'cause technically you aren't doing anything, but...

Also, the other civs can simply discover it and establish it, same as you. They won't be the first and therefore can't make a shrine but they can discover the tech that goes with the religion and then just start it. (can't they?)

Tom P.

**DeepO** · October 27, 2005, 14:14

Re: Re: Re: Ok lets start analyzing religion

Originally posted by padillah
Also, the other civs can simply discover it and establish it, same as you. They won't be the first and therefore can't make a shrine but they can discover the tech that goes with the religion and then just start it. (can't they?)

Tom P.

Not that I'm aware of. You discover the tech just fine, but don't get any religion in any of your cities. If it was founded on another continent, you will not have it for many years...

DeepO

**UnOrthOdOx** · October 27, 2005, 14:47

I got 1 big Q on missionaries.

I founded Hinduism, and made it my state religion.

I also founded several others, and went to the 'organized religion' civic. Nice boost to production.

Naturally I want all my cities to have hinduism in them to get the bonus. The holy city for one of the other religions was not getting Hinduism fast enough for me, so I sent a missionary there to convert some people. This consumes the missionary.

I got a 'Hinduism failed' message. No converts. Twice, 2 missionaries. Both consumed.

I've never had this converting pagan cities, but am wondering:

Is the convert function of missionaries just a % chance? If so, how much? What effects it? etc etc etc.

**DeepO** · October 27, 2005, 14:53

Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx
Is the convert function of missionaries just a % chance? If so, how much? What effects it? etc etc etc.

It is, but I don't know the specific formula. I think I noticed a difference when the city has a religion, and noticed a difference in a holy city as well (like you did).

For a while I thought that some combinations of religions were particularly bad, as in one game I lost 4 Islamic missionaries converting the Jewish holy citiy, but in the next couple of games this worked without losing one... coincidence, I gather.

DeepO

**conmcb25** · October 27, 2005, 14:53

If the religion is already there UnO, sending another missionary does nothing I believe.

I had one city yesterday out of two CIv's worth of cities where my religion didn't take until the thrid or fourth try, every other city I tried to spread my religion to took on the first shot. Thats in another Civ.

i had a second and even a thrid religion fouinded in my empire last night and every one I sent a missionary to got my state religion as one of the religions in the city.

**Dominae** · October 27, 2005, 15:11

Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx
I got a 'Hinduism failed' message. No converts. Twice, 2 missionaries. Both consumed.

Yes, this is annoying.

Is the convert function of missionaries just a % chance? If so, how much? What effects it? etc etc etc.

I'm not sure what the % chances are either, but I do know that's it's affect by the presence (and number) of other Religions within the target city. So it's harder to convert another civ that already has a Religion, even harder when it has multiples. Think of it in terms of resistance to new beliefs.

As you mention, the success rate of empty cities if very high (not sure if it's 100% though). So found your Religions early, and send out those Missionaries! The AI might make your job a lot harder in 30 turns when it founds Confucianism or Christianity.

**UnOrthOdOx** · October 27, 2005, 15:19

No, Hinduism wasn't there. Juddaism or something was though. I needed it there to take advantage of my civic.

Interesting to know the % that effects this. That was allot of early hammers to risk on my own city I KNEW would be converted eventually, and I may not have if I knew the %. Those missionaries could have been better served converting the pagans of otehr nations.

**DeepO** · October 27, 2005, 15:54

UnO, there is a lot more choice in picking where to send a missionary to, than just whether there is a religion already present or not. For instance, if you want to convert someone to your state religion, you target his bigger cities. If you want to just have some gold, you pick smaller ones, as they most likely won't have too many other religions, and they won't benefit from the extra relgion as much (smaller cities need less happiness)

DeepO

**UnOrthOdOx** · October 28, 2005, 12:03

In my experience, though, if you have pagan neighbors, they will switch to whatever as soon as they get any religion in any city, and then begin spreading it amongst the rest of their cities for you.

**Arrian** · October 28, 2005, 12:17

For me, the biggest impact was on diplomacy. -4 for being a heathen puts a real damper on things.

-Arrian

**DeepO** · October 28, 2005, 12:41

Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx
In my experience, though, if you have pagan neighbors, they will switch to whatever as soon as they get any religion in any city, and then begin spreading it amongst the rest of their cities for you.

You are correct, I was talking about trying to change someone's state religion. If there was none to start with, any city will do.

But still: bigger cities mean more missionaries that can be built. Which means faster money for you

DeepO

**conmcb25** · October 28, 2005, 12:46

Originally posted by DeepO
But still: bigger cities mean more missionaries that can be built. Which means faster money for you

DeepO

Ok could you explain what you mean by this?

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