Will irrigation trump founding a religion?

[realpolitic]

With ICS gone, and conquest posssibly weakened, there still is the ability to build big cities. Irrigation, by adding citizens adds trade and hammers. My knowledge of civ4 is still limited, but it would seem an early irrigator would be able to found Christianity, or any religion that requires several techs.

[Lorizael]

A couple of things. We know that farming requires a technology as well, so you cannot jump right into it. Also, building Workers to make those farms hinders your growth. So like most other things in Civ 4, you have to really think about how yo go about building your empire.

[Provost Harrison]

I think that is what he means

Well this is it, isn't it? It's all a matter of balance and strategy...

[realpolitic]

With civ3,Rexing and early conquest will get you a populous empire. Adding roads gave enogh science to catch up. Conquest required shields, so that became the most important thing early in c3. Rexing seems out, as soon as others impinge, conquest may be good, especially as previewers say there are no more stacks of death, with the added benefit of weakening a neighbor in war. Since pop rushing of units seems gone from early civics, an enemy can't cripple itself to protect itself from annihilation as in c3 tyrany.


Farms come with agroculture, with no prereqs, pastures come a bit later. Start building workers as soon as you can increase food hammers or commerce.

As I reread the religion section, I'm starting to think founding a religion is better, but putting too mucch into early religion is questionable. If one wants to balance this further you might want to raise the cost if shrines for the early religions.

[realpolitic]

Workers cost 60?

http://civilization4.net/3/78/124/

Uugh!

(That's food and hammers) The c3 equivalent 10 shields + 1 pop = 30 How dare they close another loophole! How will I ever get to Diety?

[DeepO]

When it comes to the later religions, irrigation doesn't matter. As to the first few religions: all 3 of them will be found before you are able to irrigate your first tile.

Further, you're talking about adding workers to cities.... no can do. Workers can only be disbanded, and you're not getting anything in return.

DeepO

[Jaybe]

Originally posted by DeepO
Further, you're talking about adding workers to cities.... no can do. Workers can only be disbanded, and you're not getting anything in return.

Is there NO transfer of population between cities?

[Nikolai]

In the maths written above, realpolitic, you write a pop cost on the Civ3 part but not on the Civ4 part. Building settlers and workers still costs pops, in addition to food and hammers, right?

[Konquest02]

No, building settlers and workers do not cost pop, but cost food during their build.

[Nikolai]

Okay. One would think it costing pop AND food would be better, but I'm not the one who wrote the game and did the testing...

[DeepO]

The thing is, reducing pop is annoying, while stabilizing growth for a while is not that bad. They could indeed have reduced pop by one, and have a cost of 60 shields+food. It would more or less have the same effect for many cities. But why would you when it doesn't add a lot to gameplay (except tedium), and the current solution is smoother?

DeepO

[playshogi]

It depends....

...on your situation. Every square you want to farm requires fresh water next to it. You can't chain farms until you discover civil service. In my first game, I only had 2 squares next to fresh water, so I never built a farm. I acquired one by cultural conquest, however.

[Dominae]

Originally posted by DeepO
When it comes to the later religions, irrigation doesn't matter. As to the first few religions: all 3 of them will be found before you are able to irrigate your first tile.

This is not always true, but true enough for the present discussion!

If you really want an early Religion, chances are you will get one of the three (Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism). But there will be a trade-off with respect to how many tile improvements will be available to your first Worker. One solution to this is just not to build an early Worker while you progress down the religious branch.

Regarding the original question: there's really very little relationship between Farms and Religions; prioritizing Farms in your cities will directly not get you to, say, Christanity faster. It might if you use all that extra available Food to create Great Prophets, however.

[Jon Miller]

I generally learn two or so techs before I build my first worker...

now I am not very good

Judaism is the easiest to get of the first three

JM

[DeepO]

Originally posted by Jon Miller
Judaism is the easiest to get of the first three

It generally is your safest bet, yes, especially because there is another religion on your way there. It is also the fartest away, and going straigth for Judaism in a tight spot, without any decent protection is a deathwish on higher difficulties.

If you would lose, or chose not to pursue the first 3, consider these couple of points:

- The Oracle is in many cases in your grasp if you focus on it. It will give you a new tech on completion. It does not require a lot of trouble to let that tech be either Monarchy, or Code of Laws, and both techs give a religion.

- If you are not going for religions, it generally means that you have military objectives. So if possible, pick a target which has religious cities, or at best holy cities. Problem solved.

- Not going for religions mean you can get to alphabet faster. Which should put you in a good spot for the rest of the religious race.

- wihtout religions, great prophets are a lot harder to come by. Try to use them well: they will give you a relgious tech if they can. So consider holding out on using one to get the requiremens to a religion nobody has, and next turn you catch up. This can be very helpful in order to reach everything up to Islam.

DeepO