I have to say it

[Egbert]

Originally posted by Oerdin
I could be wrong but I believe all of the reviews released so far had to get the ok from Firaxis. That has to color things as does the fact that both Apolyton and CFC need to keep in the good graces of the Civ4 team if they want to continue getting the inside scoupe.

I seem to recall these same groups fanboyed Civ3 even though its intial release version was less then perfect. So far the game looks better then expected but I'm interested in getting community reviews since they don't have to stay so cozy with Firaxis.

Umh, would they tell us it was a great game if was horrible? Apolyton needs us more than they need Firaxis.

I am willing to accept that Solver and Mark are sincere when they say that Civ4 will be good.

[Fidel]

um, i thought he got himself banned...?

[yin26]

Originally posted by Grandpa Troll

well Yin26, since apprently we could deduce CIVIII wasnt a great game in your eyes, should CIVIV be a good game, would you consider calling this a Firaxis Reach around for putting the you know what to you on CIV III?

LOL. Well, I'm happy for those guys, actually. Losing Brian (and others) clearly resulted in gutting their talent pool at a horrible time. And while I think Pirates2! was a waste of time, it's good to see that they clearly didn't skimp on Civ 4. And if they can shut me up, that's saying something!

[yin26]

Originally posted by MarkG

hmmmmm i'm not sure what you mean, i'm playing based on what feels better to me, i didnt go about asking Soren what his vision was

Markos:

How about this, then?: You aren't pushing the AI at higher levels. Rather, you enjoy the game for the game itself.

[Grandpa Troll]

Originally posted by yin26


Markos:

How about this, then?: You aren't pushing the AI at higher levels. Rather, you enjoy the game for the game itself.

I think we can live with that

It s great we all have a nice meeting of the minds and now we can all go play

[SpencerH]

Originally posted by Grandpa Troll


I think we can live with that

It s great we all have a nice meeting of the minds and now we can all go play

Thats strangely disturbing.

[SpencerH]

So I actually pushed the button and ordered it through Amazon. Unfortunately, with free shipping it wont get here for a while - i.e. long after I couldve bought it locally (the sacrifices I make for poly )

OTOH I was playing civ3 before my copy arrived from amazon.

[SpencerH]

I think the things that iced it for me were solvers descriptions of combat results (other thread) showing that while spearman can still theoretically beat tank, it didnt happen in 15000 tries. So that looks better. I still want a tactical battle option, but I'm willing to wait.

Also the gameplay changes that should nullify ICS suggest that more thought has gone into this version compared to the previous mediocrity.

Time will tell.

I'll say one thing 'negative', I better not need to patch on day 1 or its going back.

[SpencerH]

Originally posted by yin26


Rest assured that I will be taking my own angle on the review: AI weakness. Both Markos and Solver like to play the game in the spirit of the programmer's vision for the game (please correct me, Markos or Solver if this is not how you feel). I, however, will look to abuse the system...NOT cheats, mind you. But counter-intutitive play. Pushing game mechanics to look for holes, etc.

In the end, if the AI isn't very strong, I will be disappointed. Of course, with all the modding ability, even this doesn't seem too bad of an outcome (if such an outcome is even the case). And it should go without saying that Firaxis and I don't exactly have a kissy type relationship!

IIRC one of the easy ways to beat chess programs was to 'think outside the box'. Given the relative simplicity of chess compared to civ i.e. limited numbers of moves, I would think that you're doomed to disappointment, aren't you?

If you want an opponent that will produce and react to the unexpected then you have to play a human, AI wont do it. You'd be better off playing a young child than an AI.

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by SpencerH


Thats strangely disturbing.

I was watching two cats fighting at my friends' house the other day, and it was bizarrely reminiscent of Kabuki theatre or some strange martial art...

...the flattened ears, the awkward postures, the minute steps, arched backs and ruffed tails- then the SUDDEN STRIKE!!!

'Crouching Pussycat, Hidden Moggie.'

[yin26]

I guess what I mean is that as long as I don't see the AI doing something overtly stupid (sending small stack after small stack to sure death against a fully-fortified city), I'll be impressed. I also don't mind giving the AI more bonuses at higher levels as long as I'm not winning wars of attrition that the AI makes rather easy to weather. I'm also hopeful about mods.

Finally, I wrote somewhere that I want the management of my empire to involve strategic choices in its own right, and I hope Civ 4 can give us some of that. Barring all this, I have a 6-year-old at home ready for MP!

[Harovan]

Originally posted by yin26
Losing Brian (and others) ...

Losing whom?

[SpencerH]

Originally posted by yin26
I guess what I mean is that as long as I don't see the AI doing something overtly stupid (sending small stack after small stack to sure death against a fully-fortified city), I'll be impressed. I also don't mind giving the AI more bonuses at higher levels as long as I'm not winning wars of attrition that the AI makes rather easy to weather. I'm also hopeful about mods.

I guess you've seen the comments indicating that combat requires more strategic/operational level decisions about stack composition etc. I wonder how the AI will handle that. It seems to me that the megastacks that the AI (and we) built in civ3 would be more simplistic (and therefore easier to program) than what seems to be present in civ4.

Originally posted by yin26
Finally, I wrote somewhere that I want the management of my empire to involve strategic choices in its own right, and I hope Civ 4 can give us some of that.

Hopefully the religion/civics etc will do that.

Originally posted by yin26
Barring all this, I have a 6-year-old at home ready for MP!

Of course one benefit of an AI is that it doesnt get whiney when you crush their cities (I have a 14 and a 10 year old).

[LordShiva]

edit: Nevermind...

[SpencerH]

HAHAHAHAH I have an ATI card- should I cancel my order (which hasnt shipped yet)?