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**alva** · October 23, 2005, 01:54

Rule #1 on Poly: Don't laugh with MrFun's comments.

Rule #2 on Poly: Don't laugh with MrFun's comments.

**Locutus** · October 23, 2005, 02:57

Originally posted by Oerdin
I could be wrong but I believe all of the reviews released so far had to get the ok from Firaxis. That has to color things as does the fact that both Apolyton and CFC need to keep in the good graces of the Civ4 team if they want to continue getting the inside scoupe.

Then again, we also have to keep in the good graces of the community, or we lose them to less partial websites...

**Dinner** · October 23, 2005, 03:19

Originally posted by asleepathewheel

Get out the tinfoil hat.

Pointing out a possible conflict of interests, saying the game looks better then expected, but concluding I'd like to see reviews from the community is worthy of a tin foil hat?

You have a very interesting take on what constitutes a conspiracy theory.

**Dinner** · October 23, 2005, 03:25

Originally posted by MarkG

btw Oerdin, apparently Firaxis DID give media the final version for review after all....

So I heard. That is a big improvement over their intial position of not shipping media the final versions prior to release date.

BTW which places recieved the final version prior to ship date? I'd like to read tose reviews though I do know at least a couple other sites which are still waiting for their media copy.

**Locutus** · October 23, 2005, 03:33

Originally posted by Oerdin
So I heard. That is a big improvement over their intial position of not shipping media the final versions prior to release date.

Once again proves the old saying 'believe nothing of what you hear and only half of what you see'.

I'd like to read tose reviews though I do know at least a couple other sites which are still waiting for their media copy.

I heard (but see my first paragraph) that all major gaming already have their copy and will be publishing reviews in the next few days.

The reason the reviews are so close to the release date is because there's less than a week between gold and release. 1-2 shipping, 3-4 days playing, 1-2 days writing -- it's a small miracle IGN already managed to write a review so soon (but if you read the article, it's mostly based on non-final builds).

**MarkG** · October 23, 2005, 04:54

Originally posted by Oerdin
So I heard. That is a big improvement over their intial position of not shipping media the final versions prior to release date.

you still havent provided any fact or argument on the existance of this "initial position"....

**MarkG** · October 23, 2005, 04:59

Originally posted by Oerdin
Pointing out a possible conflict of interests

the c3c review thread (latest of all similar threads) is still topped in the civ3-general forum

the reviews page in our civ3 section still links to tons of media and gamers reviews

when you consider the possibility that the managment of Apolyton has different interests than civers please be more carefull

**SirOsis** · October 23, 2005, 08:42

SpencerH preordering Civ4?? The sky is falling...

Hopefully the MP is much much better than C3C. Sounds like it is.

**Dinner** · October 23, 2005, 10:53

Originally posted by MarkG
you still havent provided any fact or argument on the existance of this "initial position"....

This was based upon the word of Chris the former mod over at CFC and the owner of FFZ. I agree his politics are pretty wacky but he can usually be trusted to be factual on things like games and he does indeed get media copies and the inside info on a great many games.

**Dinner** · October 23, 2005, 11:01

Originally posted by MarkG
when you consider the possibility that the managment of Apolyton has different interests than civers please be more carefull

Relax Markos. I didn't say you had a conflict of interests I said Firaxis likely reviewed the preview prior to release and that the major Civ sites, like the major game magazines, are dependent to some extent upon the good will of the developers & publishers. This isn't a problem confined just to Apolyton. I've just bought one to many games which got rave reviews only to find it was buggy and needed a bit more development so I've learned to trust reviews and word of mouth of people in the community a bit more then the media. If the media/fan sites and the community give a game good reviews then I have always found the game worth buying.

As I've said Civ4 looks to be more polished the Civ3 or even C3C upon their intial release and I have high hopes though I have certain nagging concerns which I have brought up in other threads. I very much would look forward to hearing what Yin and others here have to say when after they've had a week or two of experience with the game.

**MarkG** · October 23, 2005, 12:43

Originally posted by Oerdin
Relax Markos. I didn't say you had a conflict of interests

Apolyton and CFC need to keep in the good graces of the Civ4 team

Pointing out a possible conflict of interests

the major Civ sites, like the major game magazines, are dependent to some extent upon the good will of the developers & publishers. This isn't a problem confined just to Apolyton.

we are not dependent on any developer or publisher. this has been proven with our continued stance to accept all opinions on the game we cover

**SpencerH** · October 23, 2005, 17:57

Oerdin, I dont know about you but I classify markos and solvers reviews as 'community'.

**Verenti** · October 23, 2005, 19:35

Originally posted by SpencerH
Oerdin, I dont know about you but I classify markos and solvers reviews as 'community'.

True, I find them infinatly more interesting than the drivel from Major gaming sites, but the fact they had to get premission comprimises their integrity as reviewers: It's the "State's Press". I personally take anything that has to go through a legal team with a grain of salt.

**Dinner** · October 23, 2005, 19:45

I do indeed consider Markos and Solver part of the community but as Verenti has pointed out their reviews did have to get a cursory ok from Firaxis first. I'd like to see reviews which Firaxis's censors haven't had a chance to look through.

Also Markos, nothing against you or this site since I'm a fan of both but the fact remains that if you folks don't keep Firaxis happy then you aren't likely to be on the list for beta testing, or get pre-release copies of the game, or get online chats with the developers, or several other things. Maybe those things don't influence you but they do create a potential for a conflict of interests and without them could Aployton still make the claim to being "one of the premier Civilization sites"?

Clearly you do have a vested interest in not pissing off Firaxis and that does mean you are dependent upon their good will to at least some extent.

**alva** · October 23, 2005, 19:46

I seems to have been more a question of what and when than how.

What: what features they were allowed to talk about as to not "steal" scoops from other sites.

when: not before/at the same time as another interview about to come out.

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