Which Extra Leaderheads Do You Want to See?

[Boris Godunov]

Nobody said anything about dropping any leaders, it was about "extra" ones we'd like to see.

Your point on Charlemagne isn't without merit, that one's pretty arguable. But Otto was German through and through. Since Firaxis chose Frederick as a leader, it's clear they don't just mean post 1872 German nation.

[Martinus]

If that were the case, not many European monarchs would qualify to be leaders of their countries- you could scrap a clutch of English Hanoverians, James I, William of Orange, a handful of Angevin kings, and so on.

You'd also have to jettison the Ptolemies as being non-Egyptian, and a goodly amount of Ottoman emperors, and Catherine the Great too.

And Saladin would also get the chop- being non-Egyptian and non-Arab.

Not to mention Napoleon (a Corsican), Victoria (a German), Isabela (an Aragonese), Alexander (a Macedonian), or Stalin (a Georgian).

[LordShiva]

Uh oh. You mentioned the Alexander thing again. Brace yourself for Markos

[Brutus66]

Originally posted by Gangerolf
Nero - Rome, crazy fat guys make the best leaders

I'll go along with that, but I think I would prefer Caligula. What he lacks in obesity he more than makes up in the crazy department.

Seriously though, I would have to vote for Hitler and Stalin.
I prefer my games to be historically rather than politically correct. I guess that's why I am hoping that slaves are a tradable resource...
You'll have to excuse me now while I go turn up the thermostat, it's been getting rather chilly down here since the White Sox advanced to the series.

[Tattila the Hun]

Anything from Ghengisfarb.

[Freddz]

Actually I feel it would be nice to not have to see all the old cliches of leaders we've all seen, unless they actually have had BOTH strong personalities and strong impact on history in at least some sense.
That's why I liked the choice of Firaxis of Mansa Musa so much. Perfect. A little unknown, yet very gold rich, very unpredictable choice and - I hope - strong personality.
Those surprises mixed in with some of the classic ones is perfect.
Too bad the real emotional stirrips can't be sensibly included, like Hitler, Stalin and so on... (but political correctness is sometimes wise)

[Freddz]

Originally posted by Brutus66

I'll go along with that, but I think I would prefer Caligula. What he lacks in obesity he more than makes up in the crazy department.

Seriously though, I would have to vote for Hitler and Stalin.
I prefer my games to be historically rather than politically correct.

Firaxis shouldn't include them, but perhaps they could be modded in.

[Xanthippe]

Elizabeth I and Victoria as the two English / British options. I know its good to include some female leader options in the game, but:

Elizabeth I presided over a weak country on the edge of Europe which had it not been for the timely arrival of gale force winds from the Atlantic would probably have ended up a province of Spain. Less than a hundred years later the seeds of England's / Britain's greatness were sown not under a king but under the Lord Protector Oliver Cromwell.

And Victoria regned over the britsh Empire at it's height, but she reigned, she didn't rule (that was done by various Prime Ministers, particularly Disraeli, Gladstone, Palmerston). Victoria was also after the death of her beloved Albert a drug addict using laudanum regularly, supplemented on occasion by cocaine.

Better options would be Pitt the Elder (Prime Minister during the Seven Years War), Pitt the Younger (Prime Minister during the Napoleonic Wars) or Winston Spencer Churchill.

And Kleopatra VIIth of Egypt was the last of the Ptolemies, a Greek Macedonian dynasty that ruled as Pharoahs of Egypt after the death of Alexander. She had red-brown hair and green eyes. The usual depiction of Cleopatra owes more to Hollywood and Cecil B DeMille than to historical evidence. Kleopatra is a Greek rather than an Egyptian name. Hence the introduction instead of the truly Egyptian Female Warrior Pharoah Hatshepsut.

[Guynemer]

Definitely Churchill and Charlemagne.


But must we limit leaders to actual heads of state? I've agitated on several occasions to include social revolutionaries, along the lines of Jeanne D'Arc... in particular, MLK.

[Boris Godunov]

I hated the inclusion of St. Jeanne in Civ3. Bleargh.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Brutus66
I'll go along with that, but I think I would prefer Caligula. What he lacks in obesity he more than makes up in the crazy department.

Hell, if you want a really bat**** crazy Emperor, go with Elagabalus.

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by LordShiva

not Aachen,

Or Aix-la-Chapelle, in its French form.

Elizabeth I presided over a weak country on the edge of Europe which had it not been for the timely arrival of gale force winds from the Atlantic would probably have ended up a province of Spain

Unlikely. Three Spanish armadas set out in all, in three different years.

All failed. The Spanish in fact, couldn't even hold on to the territory they already possessed- the War of Independence by the United Provinces sapped Spain's strength and coffers- and it's unlikely that the French monarchy would have wished to see a Spanish client state established across the Channel.

The Battle of Leyden, 1574, was the beginning of the end of Spanish hegemony in the Low Countries.

Victoria was also after the death of her beloved Albert a drug addict using laudanum regularly, supplemented on occasion by cocaine.

This is over-egging the druggy pudding somewhat- popular drinks and tonic wines had laudanum and coca derivatives as ingredients:

Mrs. Winslow's Soothing Syrup 1 grain (65 mg) morphine per fluid ounce

Freud famously even recommended the medicinal use of cocaine:

From 1884 to 1887 Freud published several articles on cocaine. "So coca is associated above all with my name" he wrote to Martha Bernays on 16.1.1885.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/biography/freud.html

[Xanthippe]

Personally I'd rather have more leaderhead options for all the Nations, and I'm not bothered about them being animated.

[Xanthippe]

How about for the Germans:

Maria Theresa (okay Austrian Empress, but there isn't a specific Austrian Civ. in the game) and Germany didn't unite until 1870, while Austria existed from the middle ages.

And what about that medieval bringer of mayhem Frederick Barbarossa.

[Tattila the Hun]

I do wonder, they had Stalin in Civ, why would it be bad to have him there now?