America and England?

[Dauphin]

Originally posted by tuckson
I have a good friend here who is married with a women who grew up in England. She loves the country, but admits that english are very proud on their achievements. Did you know many british people still thiink of the UK as " the Empire"?

No Englishman under 65 thinks of today's Britain as an Empire.

[tuckson]

Originally posted by Verenti


Did you know that many Canadian (Maritimers, atleast) people still think of the UK as "The Empire"? Infact, I can't tell you how many of our local industries reflect that, for example www.empiretheatres.com

Would it really surprise you if I told you I said just last week that "The Empire is sacred" (In quite a sincere and serious tone, might I add)? Around here, that phrase doesn't exactly raise eyebrows, if you know what I mean.

Why? Well, if you were subjects of the "Empire on which the sun never sets", maybe you'd understand. But then again, that's just nationalistic garbage.

To be honest, no I did not know that. Funny, since you're not exactly part of it anymore. Like most other countries formely under british government.

But maybe you're right and is it just because I've never lived in such a country.

[LordShiva]

Originally posted by tuckson
Like most other countries formely under british government.

Actually, Canada, Australia and NZ are technically Dominions of the British Empire (their head of state is the Queen).

[Verenti]

Well, Its not that we're not a part of it anymore, Its just regions of the Empire have been granted Autonomy in their Governments, Some parts this is accually Independence. I mean Elizabeth II (Shouldn't it really be Elizabeth I?) DOES hold the title "Queen of Canada", We DO require immagrants to pledge loyalty to her and the Union Jack is one of the most flown flags in my City, More so amongst private citizens but the Nova Scotian Head Government building only flies one flag: A modified Union Jack (It has a crest in the Center).

Infact it wasn't until the 1980's that Canada recieved premission from the Queen to revise our Constitution without putting it through British Parliment.

[tuckson]

Originally posted by Verenti
Well, Its not that we're not a part of it anymore, Its just regions of the Empire have been granted Autonomy in their Governments, Some parts this is accually Independence. I mean Elizabeth II (Shouldn't it really be Elizabeth I?) DOES hold the title "Queen of Canada", We DO require immagrants to pledge loyalty to her and the Union Jack is one of the most flown flags in my City, More so amongst private citizens but the Nova Scotian Head Government building only flies one flag: A modified Union Jack (It has a crest in the Center).

Infact it wasn't until the 1980's that Canada recieved premission from the Queen to revise our Constitution without putting it through British Parliment.

I am deeply ashamed. I like history, have been educated in it pretty long (no, not graduated), and still read a lot about it. But this fact really passed by without notice.

In this case I humbly recall my words about the "empire".

(but I still like UK better )

[petermarkab]

In gaming terms America has every right to be included - after all civ includes great historical and powerful nations - ones that have left a significant cultural mark on all (or most of) our lives. America is a misnomer though - does a Mexican think of himself as an american coming from the continent of america, in the same way as a francais and a german think of themselves as European?

As for the civ representing the British Isles I have mixed feelings. England did essentially conquer us, the Welsh and the Irish - it was called the Act of Union 1707 for Scotland and we did supply the first British king - but in my view England's greatest period was during Empire when we "painted the map red" brought communication and trade to large parts of the world as well as cricket! This was all done in union with scotland, wales and ireland with Scots and the like contributing (actually more than) their fair share. So on balance the civ should be Great Britain.

regards,

Peter
(without the hereditory Scottish chip-on-shoulder)

ps.

I've heard you can insult a, for instance, Scot by calling him English, go figure...

Very true - people have been killed for saying that! Also thought you'd like to know that in York, it is legal for an Englishman to shoot with bow and arrow a Scotsman in the back!

[molly bloom]

Given that the empire was 'British' and not 'English', I'd have preferred 'British' as the name- especially given the contribution of the Scots Stuart dynasty to the imperial expansionist phase.


Although Cromwell may have been the first ruler to conquer territory on a global scale (Jamaica, from the Spanish) it was James Stuart, VI and I, son of Mary Queen of Scots, who first described the territories subject to the crowns of England and Scotland as 'Great Britain'.


I suspect an unrelenting diet of 'Little English' propaganda over the years has rather more to do with the notion of 'England' being the core of the British Empire, when in fact the parts played by the numerically inferior nations in the United Kingdom in shaping the civilization were very great- Adam Smith was a Scot, many famous writers in English were either Welsh, Irish or Scots in origin, not to mention the great engineers, bankers and soldiers of non-English extraction- let alone the famous immigrants and sons of immigrants who contributed so much to the idea of the British Empire- Prince Albert, Disraeli, the Brunels, the first governor of the Bank of England- and of course the non-English dynasties of Orange and Hanover.