America and England?

[LordShiva]

Right, so back on topic.

I don't think England should be replaced with Britain, because "Britain" has historically referred to a collection of nations - England, Scotland and Wales. It's like having "Soviet Union" instead of Russia - a formal, official name.

[Martinus]

Well, to me including Britain instead of England would be like including Soviet Union instead of Russia - the "core" of the civilization is "England" - the rest is conquests and expansion.

[Dauphin]

I prefer England to Britain, but whichever was/is used, don't interchange the nouns/adjectives. Its a cardinal sin that annoyed me about Civ3.

[Sava]

i think they should be called the Britons



another cool feature I would like to see in Civ games (a little too late, I know) would be to have a custom name for your "nation"... not your Civ...

okay, you have your Civ right... say... the Americans...

Civ: America
Leader: Abe Lincoln

and then later in the game after you establish a certain kind of government, you get to choose the name of your nation... like "People's Republic of America" or "United States of America"... or some other custom name like "Sava's Federal Union of America" or something...

I think that would be cool...

[Addled Platypus]

I vote silly sod !

or silly english kniggit

[Spiffor]

I vote Perfide Albion

Noun/adjective: Rosbif

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by Spiffor
I vote Perfide Albion

Noun/adjective: Rosbif

Seriously, though ...

Germany: Not a real nation state. Prussians are very different culturally from southern Germans, for example.

Russia: Not a real nation state. Russia is frickin' huge, and if i remember correctly there are more ethnicities native to Russia than there are native or common in America ...

India: Um ... yeah. More languages spoken in this nation than in any other, by far? 23 *OFFICIAL* ones ... I suppose you should take a look at Wikipedia's entry on them ... every bit as multicultural as America.

Just for a start

I have no problem with either Great Britain, or England. England is probably used mostly because indeed most Americans (ie the major purchasers of this game, regardless of the fantastic international community here) call the country "England" not knowing about the other parts or the history there.

Indeed ... just MOD it It will be easy in civ4 to just change the name and add in cities of whatever you want ... heck, you could do that in *Civ3* ...

[Joseph]

Originally posted by Verenti
I'm saying that the British, French, Germans, Russians, Indians, Chinese, Japanese, Arabs, Spanish, et cetera, Are nations and are repersentations of Modern Nation States (Like Germany, I'm not saying Germany existed before the Victory over the French in 1871, but the German peoples did. England didn't exist until like the 10th century, but the "English" did... Sorta). The US, Canada, Mexico, Brazil, Argentina, Australia, New Zealand: These aren't Nations, They're countries. Austria isn't a nation, its a country, Its a part of the German Nation.

and those weren't Colonization, they were more of Conquests and Migrations. Otherwise Babylon would have been a colony of the Babylonians: It wasn't. India wasn't a colony of the British, It's inhabitants were mostly Indians. Hong Kong wasn't a colony of the British. However, New England WAS a colony, Nova Scotia, Quebec, Mexico, Louisana, Australia, Cuba, Brazil: THESE are colonies. The British colonized the new-world (not exclusively), Alexander the Great did not Colonize Eygpt. Large difference in conquering and settling and Colonizing.


Edit: Wikipedia says Unifcation of England is 6th Century. My bad.

According World Book Encyclopedia, King Egbert was considered to be the first King of England. But he did not control North England. North England was control by Anglo-Saxon and developed into seven separate kingdoms called the Heptarchy. These kingdoms were East Annglia, Essex, Kent, Mercia, Sussex, Wessex, and Northumbria.
(I.m suppose to be an ancestor of King Aedivin of Northumbria and Bregusind in the early 600s)

During the 800s the Danish conquered all of the Anglo-Saxon kingdoms except Wessex. Alfred the Great defeated the Dans in 866 to take control over all of England.
So it seem that England was not united until 866.
BTW the Danes came back in 1016 and took over England until 1035.

[Egbert]

I don't care whether England and America are nations or countries (or tribes or anything else you could think of calling them). I don't really care which nations/countries/tribes are in. Just so long as there are at least a dozen of them.

I would strongly prefer that one of them be England or United Kingdom ( because Firaxis has not seen the merits of including Australia ).

[nbarclay]

I like the idea of being able to change a civilization's name as it expands or changes. Then England could become Great Britain, Rome could become the Roman Empire, Russia could become the U.S.S.R. or the Russian Federation, and so on. Or players could come up with thier own names to reflect the differences between what they've done with their civilizations and what their civilizations did historcally - the Uniion of Socialist American States, or the Islamic Federation of Japan, for example. It's just an extra toy to play with, not something that would really affect gameplay, but it seems like it would be simple enough to implement in an expansion pack.

[tuckson]

Originally posted by Spiffor
I vote Perfide Albion

Noun/adjective: Rosbif

LL

Actually, to excess things a bit further, I've always had kind of a small objection against the term "Great Britain". What's so great on it anyway?

It's not really decent to call your own nation "great".
i have no problem with use of the name "England" whatsoever. United Kingdom otoh suits very well imho since in the past centuries the empire was bigger than just england.

however, i can see the point of "America", since it's inhabitants are more or less "imported" from other countries. (true, there are native inhabitants, but it took a pretty long time before the "americans" considerd these natives as fellow "americans").

But because of the type and simplicity of the game I have no objection to the way it's implemented now.

[Atahualpa]

It's Great Britain, as in Big Britain, not Fabulous Britain

If you know german (judging by your flag, I think you do), there is a difference between "groß" and "großartig" and Great Britain is called "Großbritannien" in german. English often is very reduced and few words have lots of meanings. A thing I don't like so much about it, especially when you search on the internet for a word that has more meanings, you've got to add words that are likely to go with it, to single out what you really search for.
Ofc, lots of different meanings for the same word is part of every language, but I found it to be worst in english.

[tuckson]

Originally posted by Atahualpa
It's Great Britain, as in Big Britain, not Fabulous Britain

If you know german (judging by your flag, I think you do), there is a difference between "groß" and "großartig" and Great Britain is called "Großbritannien" in german. English often is very reduced and few words have lots of meanings. A thing I don't like so much about it, especially when you search on the internet for a word that has more meanings, you've got to add words that are likely to go with it, to single out what you really search for.
Ofc, lots of different meanings for the same word is part of every language, but I found it to be worst in english.

I know. Actually I was just trying to push a bit around to see who jumps.
Don't think I'm an England hater. Not at all.

However the fun is that many (especially older) people often explain the word great definitely als in this way. you know "brittannia rules the waves" and things like that?

I have a good friend here who is married with a women who grew up in England. She loves the country, but admits that english are very proud on their achievements. Did you know many british people still thiink of the UK as " the Empire"?

[_BuRjaCi_]

Civ should realy look at what civilizations represent. Are we playing nations or states (civilization is such a wide term, pex. "Wester Civilization") . Are we rulers or guiding spirits. I think there was a thread about this, I'll go loking in the archives ...

[Verenti]

Originally posted by tuckson
Did you know many british people still thiink of the UK as " the Empire"?

Did you know that many Canadian (Maritimers, atleast) people still think of the UK as "The Empire"? Infact, I can't tell you how many of our local industries reflect that, for example www.empiretheatres.com

Would it really surprise you if I told you I said just last week that "The Empire is sacred" (In quite a sincere and serious tone, might I add)? Around here, that phrase doesn't exactly raise eyebrows, if you know what I mean.

Why? Well, if you were subjects of the "Empire on which the sun never sets", maybe you'd understand. But then again, that's just nationalistic garbage.