A few Civics questions...

[OzzyKP]

Originally posted by MrFun


Good point -- during the Jacksonian era, white men enjoyed "universal" suffrage as far as they were concerned.

Meanwhile, slavery existed in the Southern states.

Just like now adults enjoy "universal" suffrage as far as they are concerned. Youth (and felons) get the shaft.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by OzzyKP


Just like now adults enjoy "universal" suffrage as far as they are concerned. Youth (and felons) get the shaft.

[snoopy369]

Hijacking a Civ4 thread with OT Politics

I presume on #3 that Environmentalism indeed gives bonuses (big ones?) to Health while probably cutting into some aspect of the economy (ie no strip-mining )

[Odin]

Originally posted by OzzyKP


Just like now adults enjoy "universal" suffrage as far as they are concerned. Youth (and felons) get the shaft.

Ozzy:


Anyway, I can have my pro-enviroment, pro-civil rights and liberties, Socialist Democracy at last.

[Verenti]

You can't be Socialist AND Pro-Enviroment. Apparently the state owning things and a green economy are mutually exclusive.

[Odin]

Originally posted by Verenti
You can't be Socialist AND Pro-Enviroment. Apparently the state owning things and a green economy are mutually exclusive.

[Nikolai]

Norway's Socialist Party is pretty green in their political views on those things.

[Odin]

Originally posted by Nikolai
Norway's Socialist Party is pretty green in their political views on those things.

Norway:

[ajbera]

Solver, I don't know if you cover this in your preview, or even if you and/or Markos can comment on it, but can you tell us how many turns of anarchy occur between changes in civics? Do multiple changes result in longer periods of anarchy? And are there any other side effects from changing civics (besides anarchy and the effects of the civic choice)?

[Solver]

No comment!

[Krill]

So long as it is nothing like in C3C where we could have up to 9 turns of Anarchy per civic change... :blah:

[petermarkab]

3) What is the point of Environmentalism? (i.e. how would it help?)

Not sure how the civics model is going to work but it should (as has been said) have health, anti-pollution benefits but also economic benefits and some sort of happiness factor.

while probably cutting into some aspect of the economy (ie no strip-mining

Yeah maybe there will be some mechanics to represent planning regulations and restrictions on mining, forestry etc, but environmentalism is about more than restricting industry; its about using resources more carefully. For example if you have a car manufacturer that's sourcing components do they have them made from newly mined aluminium or do they use recycled aluminium from old scrap. Two problems solved - no more scrap Al hanging around and less dependency on imported goods, and of course more jobs created in the recycling (read Environmental) sector. This would apply to all resources.

You can't be Socialist AND Pro-Enviroment. Apparently the state owning things and a green economy are mutually exclusive.

I don't think socialism is synonymous with state-owned! My interpretation of socialism is equally owned and used by the people to the mutual benefit of all the people. The state can and does run environmental projects - in Scotland, there is a government funded body called SEPA which monitors and regulates the environment, in particular water quality. Additonally, private enterprise is involved in the environment sector but i wouldn't say it wasn't of benefit to the general population.

To be honest though, all this might be a little complicated for the civics model!!

regards,

Peter

[sabrewolf]

Originally posted by ajbera
Solver, I don't know if you cover this in your preview, or even if you and/or Markos can comment on it, but can you tell us how many turns of anarchy occur between changes in civics? Do multiple changes result in longer periods of anarchy? And are there any other side effects from changing civics (besides anarchy and the effects of the civic choice)?

i think i'll try to answer this one:

in one of the replay-screenshots you can see that most leaders do several civic changes at once. therefore i interpret that you get 1 turn of anarchy, no matter whether it's 1 change or 5 changes.

what i'd find interesting to know is what happens when you discover a tech which enables a new civic. can you switch immediately (but then only one at a time) and effectively have no anarchy or is it the full turn nonetheless?
if it is the latter, i hope it the "during-turn" actions are not influenced. in civ3 if you went into anarchy in the beginning of the turn, your workers were slower and you couldn't rush anymore. so it was a no-brainer to switch end of the played turn.