A few Civics questions...

[ElConejo]

This has probibly been worked through on another thread, but of the ones I have read I havent seen anyone bring it up... but I have a few questions about some of the options...

1) on the CivFantatics info they said that "Mercantilism - +1 Free specialist per city. No foreign trade routes." No trade? Does this mean that you are not allowed to trade resources or lux with any other civs?

2) What is the difference between Universal Suffrage and Representation? (it doesnt say anywhere...)

3) What is the point of Environmentalism? (i.e. how would it help?)

4) Heres a BIG QUESTION I have: Is it as SMAC was where if you choose a Civ with a Favored civic option, are you required to use that option?

Thanks alot in advance for any thoughts/replies.

[Nikolai]

Re: A few Civics questions...

Originally posted by ElConejo
1) on the CivFantatics info they said that "Mercantilism - +1 Free specialist per city. No foreign trade routes." No trade? Does this mean that you are not allowed to trade resources or lux with any other civs?

I'd guess that you can. The trade routes is the auto thingie between cities IIUC.

2) What is the difference between Universal Suffrage and Representation? (it doesnt say anywhere...)

Agreed, weird to have those two as separate. But if I were to guess, I'd say Universal Suffrage is that everybody can vote, no matter how rich you are or what sex you are, while representation is that you have some kind of represenation, like for instance ancient Athens.

3) What is the point of Environmentalism? (i.e. how would it help?)

No idea. Haven't noticed anything special on it. Perhaps something with health?

4) Heres a BIG QUESTION I have: Is it as SMAC was where if you choose a Civ with a Favored civic option, are you required to use that option?

I'd imagine it's only a AI thing.

[Martinus]

Yup, Representation is a system where various groups of the society have more or less representation in the government - it's a parliamentary system, like 18th century England, for example. Universal Suffrage is, on the other hand, a system where everybody has one and equal vote.

It's more or less a disction between Republic and Democracy from earlier civs.

[Solver]

Of course, in Civ4 you can have absolutely weird combinations. Police State + Free Speech, or Universal Suffrage + Slavery.

[Puupertti Ruma]

Originally posted by Solver
Of course, in Civ4 you can have absolutely weird combinations. Police State + Free Speech, or Universal Suffrage + Slavery.

Hmm, but do the slaves get to vote? If they did, they'dd probably vote against slavery really fast, don't you think .

In police state with free speech, you could say anything, but would get smacked if the state don't like what you're saying, which in effect makes people afraid of saying what they want.

Given this, you could deduct that some Civic choices exclude some others, and examples given here by Solver would be good examples of that behavior. We haven't had enough info on that subject to actually know if this is true or not.

[Sabre2th]

Originally posted by Puupertti Ruma


Hmm, but do the slaves get to vote? If they did, they'dd probably vote against slavery really fast, don't you think .

In police state with free speech, you could say anything, but would get smacked if the state don't like what you're saying, which in effect makes people afraid of saying what they want.

Given this, you could deduct that some Civic choices exclude some others, and examples given here by Solver would be good examples of that behavior. We haven't had enough info on that subject to actually know if this is true or not.

If I remember right, Solver was actually quoting a line from one of the interviews. The game almost certainly does not take the effects that far.

[Solver]

I wasn't directly quoting, but something to that effect was indeed said in one of the interviews, that you can have civics that don't seem to go togehter logically at the same time.

Then again, Police State + Free Speech is what the Soviet Union was, in theory. There was, of course, no real free speech, as speech vs. ideology = concentration camp, but in theory, there was free speech. Likewise, the Romans, who had voting and some form of democracy also had slaves. Athenian democracy also existed at a time when there was a large slave population.

[Spiffor]

You could envision a police state with free speech. Basically, it would be a state that is extremely harsh on "crime" (with a very broad definition of "crime"), but where speech doesn't belong to the definition.

Actually you could have a democratic police state, if the citizenry has very authoritarian values, and votes for a brutal police smackdown of anything that is deviant.

[alva]

Originally posted by Solver
Of course, in Civ4 you can have absolutely weird combinations. Police State + Free Speech, or Universal Suffrage + Slavery.

Sounds pretty much like the US, doesn't it.


* runs

[MrFun]

Originally posted by alva


Sounds pretty much like the US, doesn't it.


* runs

Good point -- during the Jacksonian era, white men enjoyed "universal" suffrage as far as they were concerned.

Meanwhile, slavery existed in the Southern states.

[Maniac]

Re: A few Civics questions...

Originally posted by ElConejo
4) Heres a BIG QUESTION I have: Is it as SMAC was where if you choose a Civ with a Favored civic option, are you required to use that option?

You aren't required to choose the faction's favourite choice in SMAC. As it will probably be in Civ4, it's just the AI who is likely to choose it when available, and it will affect your relations if you don't.

[Nikolai]

Actually, I remember now, SMAC had civic choices that were not available if you played factiuon X. I doubt this is the way it's done in Civ4 though.

[GeoModder]

I haven't seen anything either to support this, so my guess is that it is not implemented.

[Sabre2th]

They've been pushing the flexibility of the system from the start, so I don't see how they even COULD limit our choices. Plus, unlike SMAC, Civ is all about recreating/reshaping history. It wouldn't make sense to force you to use certain civics if you're supposed to be redefining our world

[_BuRjaCi_]

This has stayed with me since if first saw it on apolyton.
It has won me over completley.
I don't care about anything else,democracy, slavery,free market, power just give me a
Theocratic Police State !!!