Interesting...

[MrFun]

Originally posted by sabrewolf

christianity: like martines said. and also christianity tumbles into dark ages and low research in theocratic and feudalistic modes but thrives in secular situations?
(and to provoke: seeing religious items in water-marks along some walls, etc )

Or how Christian monks helped preserve the intellectual heritage of the older ancient civilizations.

[GeoModder]

Or how muslim scientists elaborated on that ancient knowledge a bit earlier so that those monks could 'preserve' it.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by GeoModder
Or how muslim scientists elaborated on that ancient knowledge a bit earlier so that those monks could 'preserve' it.

I'm well aware of the legacy that Muslims had in preserving this legacy -- but too often, people rant on about how Christians were so pathetic during the Middle Ages to the point of forgetting some of the good that came with Christians along with the bad.

[Matches10]

Originally posted by MxM

Originally posted by Philotas
If the religions were given different traits, then one or two would be recognized as the "best" religion.

and why the same could not be said about countries?

I think the key here is that gameplayers will be choosing religions and even small imbalances will lead to a lot of "Christianity is the best" or "Taoism is the best", talk, which you don't really get with the civs. This is because no matter what civilization you choose, the personality of that civilization becomes whatever YOU determine it will be, aside from things like the minor bonuses in Civ III where you couldn't say "Because the French have trait X and Y, they are a better civilization than the Aztecs which have traits A and B." Or at least this effect is diminished greatly by the input the user has. One might be able to say "I prefer playing AGAINST Indians than the Zulus" but that is not quite as testy as "Relgion X is the best in the game."

Also I suspect that players of a certain religion would not want their civ to be different to their own actual religion. Perhaps a Muslim player would specifically make efforts to make his a Muslim civilization, but you don't necessarily want that to be a detriment to the strategy of the game. If Christianity somehow ends up with a competitive advantage you alienate a lot of people from other religions.

Personally I have no problem with it; I think it would add some character to the game but I understand why they're leaving it out. It's impossible already to keep groups from complaining why their "civilizaion" isn't in the game (I'm still waiting for Slovenians, BTW ) so marginalizing some religions in favor of others, even if accidenatal and in the name of better gameplay, could probably get very messy.

Already, in fact, I'm wondering about atheism. Is it necessarily going to be a detriment to your civilizaion if you don't have a state religion or pursue some of the religious aspects of the game? If there is no benefit to pursuing one religion over another I certainly would hope that there also is no necessary detriment to forgoing religion altogether.

[GeoModder]

Originally posted by MrFun
I'm well aware of the legacy that Muslims had in preserving this legacy -- but too often, people rant on about how Christians were so pathetic during the Middle Ages to the point of forgetting some of the good that came with Christians along with the bad.

Yes, you're quite right there as well. And during those same middle ages some good use was made of the preserved things.

[Dracon II]

Because Firaxis doesn't want to have planes piloted into their headquarters.

Knowing religions... fanatics will most likely bomb firaxis because they made their religion equal to all the others.

If they make christianity the best, they'll be criticized by the muslims, and accused of anti-semitism and euro-centrism.

If they make Islam the best, they'll be accused of appeasing terrorists and anti-semitism.

If they make Judaism the best, they'll be accused of zionism, of cowtowing to the financial establishment (which we know is controlled by Jews.... *not*) etc

If they make any of the eastern religions the best, they'll be accused of wishy-washy new age-ism

And if they make all the religions equal... they'll be accused of relativism.

[Kataphraktoi]

If they make Judaism the best, they'll be accused of zionism, of cowtowing to the financial establishment (which we know is controlled by Jews.... *not*) etc

dude the jews are so controlling things its all just part of some twisted plot to enslave us all

[MxM]

Originally posted by Matches10
...aside from things like the minor bonuses in Civ III where you couldn't say "Because the French have trait X and Y, they are a better civilization than the Aztecs which have traits A and B." Or at least this effect is diminished greatly by the input the user has.

And WHY the same can not be done with religions ??! I still fail to see it!

Just do not make any religion better than others like it was done with civ traits!

[The_Aussie_Lurker]

Well, my hope is that in a future expansion, the founder of a new faith can assign one or two 'traits' which he wants to define that faith-with said traits being acquired by any civ which adopts the religion later on.
Also, the founding civ should be able to come along and change traits in a similar fashion to changing civics (i.e. at a cost and with 1 turn of anarchy). Now, what would also be intriguing is if the changing of traits-or a non-founding civ playing against the traits of his religion-could lead to a religious schism, where the non-founding civ could found a sect of the religion to which he belongs. Hmmm, maybe that can be modded in .

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

[sabrewolf]

Originally posted by MxM
And WHY the same can not be done with religions ??! I still fail to see it!

Just do not make any religion better than others like it was done with civ traits!

i presume because you don't have much choice which religion you "invent". whilst you can choose your civ and leader and modify the civics at game runtime, the religion could only be influenced by NOT discovering it as first...

speaking of that, some questions:
1) what happens if you techwhore ahead and are first to discover several religious techs ( religion and technology in the same context... i never thought i'd ever write that ). will you get more than one religion based in your country?

2) if your religious base city is captured: will the enemy then fully profit of it's "holy centre" benefits? and last...

3) do religions spread out geographically or can they also "jump" half the way around the globe, like with missionarism or when capturing a "lesser" civ (in this case meaning one without it's own religion)

[The_Aussie_Lurker]

The most likely answer to the first question is that you probably will-but good luck trying to keep your nation together during the middle part of the game when you are trying to appease half a dozen different religions, especially given that you can only have 1 State religion at any given time !. Admittedly, though, you will probably manage to rake in a fair bit of cash if you manage to convert enough people in other civs to your religion !

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

[Martinus]

Also I suspect that players of a certain religion would not want their civ to be different to their own actual religion. Perhaps a Muslim player would specifically make efforts to make his a Muslim civilization, but you don't necessarily want that to be a detriment to the strategy of the game. If Christianity somehow ends up with a competitive advantage you alienate a lot of people from other religions.

I don't see how it is relevant.

I mean, an American may likewise want to play Americans but be unhappy with the civilization traits - should we therefore remove them as well?

[Martinus]

2) if your religious base city is captured: will the enemy then fully profit of it's "holy centre" benefits?

I certainly hope so. After all, this kind of stuff is one of the reasons why there is no peace in Middle East.

[Kataphraktoi]

I certainly hope so. After all, this kind of stuff is one of the reasons why there is no peace in Middle East.

wtf capturing your religion center should stir up some nasty resistance. iraq for example,has just made the terroists even stronger than before by giving then worldwide support and more people signing up.

[Martinus]

Originally posted by Cataphract887


wtf capturing your religion center should stir up some nasty resistance. iraq for example,has just made the terroists even stronger than before by giving then worldwide support and more people signing up.

I have no idea what you are talking about. Which religion has its holy cities located in Iraq, exactly?