c++ ability

[Kataphraktoi]

ive heard tons about the xml and python,and it looks

but what i havnt seen anything about is c++,and how much of this will be hardcoded. the magazine on editing abilities that was scanned in didnt say a thing about it IIRC

im hoping the ability to edit with that will be nearly as unrestricted as the rest of the code.

[Niessuh]

Edit hardcoded elemments? impossible. It's a commercial product, they have to sell it

[binTravkin]

I think from what we know now we can deduct it was just a boon at the very beginning to attract all kinds of open-souring and open-source-keen people..

[Atahualpa]

binTravkin, what do you know what I don't?

[Locutus]

This is pretty much what we know:

Finally and most spectacularly, Firaxis will release a good portion of the game's source code as part of the game/AI SDK -- this is not very uncommon for some other types of games such as FPS games, but is almost unprecedented for strategy games. This SDK contains all the source code related to the rules of the game and all the AI code (but not other things like network code or the graphics engine). Using this package, modders will be able to do everything from writing their own game types to pretty much building their own game loosely based on Civilization; they can change literally anything they want. This is not for the faint-of-heart though, one will have to be a capable programmer to do really meaningful things with the SDK. Prior programming experience is pretty much a necessity. Note that the SDK will not ship with the game itself, but rather will be released seperately at a later date.

http://civilization4.net/3/115/153/

Sounds pretty good to me...

[Kataphraktoi]

yes i saw that. ''literally anything they want'' is a meaningless phrase. ussually when that is said in my experiance,its when the limits are very high and the speaker cannot summarize what *can* be done

[Locutus]

Well, that's the nature of source code. With a full-fledged programming language like C++ you *can* do literally anything you want. It should be entirely possible to convert Civ4 into a SMAC or CtP clone, or to make it an RPG game. Even turning it into RTS might be possible, but that depends a bit on how flexible the Gamebryo engine (and the link from the SDK to the engine) is. The only thing that will likely limit you are things like the graphics engine, network protocols, etc. But at least within the framework of a TBS game, I'd be surprised if there will be huge limitations on what we can do.

[Atahualpa]

So we are back to time & resources as our biggest limitations

[Solver]

The Gamebryo engine is versatile. It has been used in Morrowind, is going to be used for Oblivion, one of the graphically best games out there, and also is used for Pirates and Civ4.

The engine being open-sourced is out of the question. However, if the code of the game itself is open, there are indeed very few limits, the main probably being time and skill. It should probably be able to make anything within the TBS realm (a CtP, SMAC or MoO conversion), and also, with appropriate skill, probably games of other genres. Sid Meier's Football Manager or Sid Meier's Half-Doom.

[Locutus]

Originally posted by Solver
and also, with appropriate skill, probably games of other genres. Sid Meier's Football Manager or Sid Meier's Half-Doom.

As I said, if that will work depends on how well the SDK links to the game engine. If all the turn-related stuff is in outside the SDK, we're 'stuck' on making TBS games (or other TB games such as RPGs, or a Football Manager indeed). If the link is very open and gives access to the full capabilities of Gamebryo, there's truely no limit to what can be done, as Gamebryo is a versatile engine indeed.

We'll just have to wait and see... (But of course it's not like anyone's actually going to make a Civ4-based RTS game, there are probably easier ways to do that.)

[LDiCesare]

A good portion of the source code and all the AI code looks like only Python. I see no reason why they'd release C++. It's a real pain of a language, since you need to compile and link with libraries and headers, some of which may be third party and not possible to distribute, whereas python is interpreted and doesn't need such a mess.
The less C++ code and the more Python the better imo.

[Kataphraktoi]

Sid Meier's Football Manager or Sid Meier's Half-Doom.

why not simply use existing open source projects if you want that? there are plenty of FPS bases to pick from

The less C++ code and the more Python the better imo.

imo the more power and less restrictions the better

[Locutus]

Originally posted by LDiCesare
A good portion of the source code and all the AI code looks like only Python.

That's certainly not the impression that I'm getting. It sounds like Python will mostly cover event-based scripting, not the core game rules and certainly not the AI (or only to a limited extent). The reason for not using Python more is quite obvious: C++ give much better performance.

Originally posted by Cataphract887
why not simply use existing open source projects if you want that? there are plenty of FPS bases to pick from

As I said in my previous post, noone's seriously going to do that, but it indicates how powerful the SDK will be and how much you can do with it (or at least if the suggestions by Firaxians are lived up to), which was your reason for starting this thread, wasn't it?

[Kataphraktoi]

well i know how strong the potental is or i wouldnt have started this thread. what i would like to know if how much artifical restrictions there will be

[Solver]

If Firaxis live up to their promises, then time & skills will probably be the biggest limitation.

Modding-wise, what I'm most looking forward is AI. I know that it's quite probably among the hardest modding work, creating new AI routines and making them work well together with the already existing modules, but I will love any such improvement.