The spread of technology accross the lands

[Dis]

I'm hoping my fellow intelligent posters can help me out. Because I'm not that versed in this particular aspect of world history (I'm more interested in wars ).

It seems to me the way technlogy is in the civ games is very unrealistic. Though it may be better this way from a gameplay standpoint. we can discuss this later.

I may be wrong, but I'm curious. Did a nation such as switzerland ever have to research gunpowder? Or nationalism? Nationalism isn't a great example since it's a human thought concept and not a concrete technology. It seems to me many technologies flowed rather easily between european nations. Some easier than others, however.

What are your thoughts on this? I was thinking I hate seeing nations that are horribly backward in technology (because they are small). I wouldn't mind seeing a continous great library effect. A technology known by 3 nations should be spread around. But there should be geographical limitations to this, however. For example, africa never had access to these european technologies. And neither did Asia. So you could limit this effect to continents. What are your thoughts on this?

Or to represent the effect, they could make it easier to steal technology. I'm not really sure how tech steal worked in civ3 (I never used it). But it seemed to me to be expensive, and difficult to pull off. Granted, some technologies such as nuclear fission should be difficult to pull off. Most nations guard these secrets ver well.

which brings another point briefly mentioned above. Not all technologies are equal. Some such as nationalism, or mystism aren't really technologies, but ideas. Techs such as these should spread as migration spreads. As people communicate this ideas through migration and travel. Other that are concrete scientific tech such as nuclear fission should not spread so easily (even in tight geographical areas such as europe).

It would be difficult to implement these ideas into an already finished game such as civ4. But it is something to consider for mods or future versions of civ. I just think technologies such as nationalism and mysticism should spread quickly no matter matter what your science rate is, or the amount of gold you have to trade/steal for it. And techs such as nuclear fission should be very difficult to obtain without research.

[H Tower]

technology spread across trade routes in ancient history, so if you're trading with another civilization, then perhaps it will lead to you learning their technology. Heck, I'd even settler for increased science beaker production if you have a road connecting your civilization with another civ that has the tech.

[Standup]

Really Interesting point. One of the big fears in other countries after the French revolution in 1789 was that the ideology could spread and affect other countries. Similarly there was a big worry that communism/socialism could upset the natural order after the Russian revolution - all those soldiers coming back from the war. Not sure how you'd represent this in CIV. The great library effect is a good idea - seems strange that everyone else in the world has something like gunpowder (for example) but i have to discover it 500 years later. The idea of human thought concepts speading or attack by ideology sounds like an extension of culture.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by H Tower
technology spread across trade routes in ancient history, so if you're trading with another civilization, then perhaps it will lead to you learning their technology. Heck, I'd even settler for increased science beaker production if you have a road connecting your civilization with another civ that has the tech.

That was the spirit behind "roads produce science" from the beginning of Civ. Though they're overhauling the way income works, I wouldn't be suprised if they kept a bonus for connecting to other cities and other civs.

[Spiffor]

Re: The spread of technology accross the lands

Originally posted by Dis
Did a nation such as switzerland ever have to research gunpowder?

I'd guess that they had to pay foreign crafstmen to teach rifle-making to them. In civ terms they "bought" a tech (at a bargain, I imagine). It is possible that they have modern weapons today that they don't produce by themselves (they buy the hardware abroad). In Civ terms, that would be "unit trading".

[Datajack Franit]

Connections to other civs affecting tech rate and ideology

[Dis]

Originally posted by Datajack Franit
Connections to other civs affecting tech rate and ideology

sounds good to me

[Adm.Naismith]

Originally posted by Standup
Not sure how you'd represent this in CIV. The great library effect is a good idea - seems strange that everyone else in the world has something like gunpowder (for example) but i have to discover it 500 years later. The idea of human thought concepts speading or attack by ideology sounds like an extension of culture.

IIRC, the concept of spreading knowledge is simulated in Civ III by reducing the tech costs after some other Civ already discovered it.

[Dis]

Originally posted by Adm.Naismith


IIRC, the concept of spreading knowledge is simulated in Civ III by reducing the tech costs after some other Civ already discovered it.

they don't reduce them enough.

It's pathetic when you find some island nation that hasn't even researched map making yet.

I think after a certain point of time, people should be able to figure out how to draw lines on piece of paper/parchment.

[Lancer]

Governments developing tech is fairly silly until the manhattan project. Instead governments used private sector developments and the individuals in the military adapted them to warmaking. The Chinese developed gunpowder as everyone knows, but not as a weapon. It was used for centuries as a noisemaker for celebrations before being adapted for war. In fact that adaption was to take rockets used for celebrations and firing them at opposing forces to unsettle them. So governments through most of history are not the developers of science, in fact they mostly hinder progress. An example of that would be the treatment astronomy got from the government. Instead of devoting tax $ in an effort to aquire this new tech, governments, controled by corrupt church officials, punished those who worked on it. Astronomy was developed IN SPITE of the governments until England put up a prize for someone to develope a method of determining longitude...iirc....or was it latitude.

Civ is a game that teaches people to look to government for the answers, when historicly government was a drag on science and it was the people themselves who, by working and inventing to better their situation, developed science.

Another interesting bit about historical sci is the Aztecs and the wheel. Yes, they (the people) had developed it for use on childs toys but they had never adapted it for other civilian or military use.

[H Tower]

Originally posted by Spiffor

That was the spirit behind "roads produce science" from the beginning of Civ. Though they're overhauling the way income works, I wouldn't be suprised if they kept a bonus for connecting to other cities and other civs.

roads produced trade in Civ1 and 2, did they actually produce beakers in 3?

[Dis]

Originally posted by H Tower


roads produced trade in Civ1 and 2, did they actually produce beakers in 3?

'

they produced commerce I believe. And of course trade is broken down into gold/science/luxery funding.

[sophist]

Originally posted by Lancer
Another interesting bit about historical sci is the Aztecs and the wheel. Yes, they (the people) had developed it for use on childs toys but they had never adapted it for other civilian or military use.

The wheel is a lot less useful without draft animals.

[H Tower]

the chinese and their rickshaw boys would like to differ

[Zkribbler]

Although some tech advances, such as Damascus steel and Greek fire, never spread but were kept secret.