Jungles have lots of great stuff besides bananas

[yin26]

Yep. Good idea!

[MarkG]

good to see you post on-topic for a change lancer

[Zkribbler]

first time in years i post on topic and what does markg say? "good to see you post on-topic for a change lancer" lance. lancer! lancer!!! What am I, chopped liver??

[MarkG]

so.... who are you again?

[Last Conformist]

Originally posted by MarkG
good to see you post on-topic for a change lancer

On-topic posts are evil.

[AeonOfTime]

This is getting a bit off-topic

[patcon]

Originally posted by yin26
How about you get certain bonuses for Jungle tiles only as you progress in the game? For example, if I elect not to cut down forests early in my game, I might, after a certain medical discovery, get health bonuses within my cities due to the drugs I'm now able to make use of. We see this dynamic with oil not appearing on the map until you discover it, etc., but that could be applied to jungle tiles, too.

This would add a little more challenge / planning for a pay off that you would not see until later in the game. So the slash and burn players would be up against the resource harvesters (assuming the slash and burn players don't get too big of a headstart!).

You could also go into enemy territory and torch his trees! Pure evil.

Strategic resource, as well as bonus resource, locations are determined at the start of the game based on the original terrain type in a tile. The difference is that strategic locations are not revealed (to the human player) until the relevant tech is discovered, while bonus locations are openly visible. The stinking, cheating AI knows all resource locations from the git-go; so, as someone else mentioned in a different thread, "if you see the AI sending a settler into the tundra to found a city, there's oil there waiting to be discovered." Aside from that AI cheat (which can be exploited by the human) there is a certain logic to this for some resources. The fact that I've drained a swamp doesn't change the fact that millions of years ago, a bunch of dinosaurs died there and turned into 10-W40.

That having been said as the "current state of the game", your comment about certain (surface-based, presumably) resources being dependent on the current terrain type is intriguing and realistic. Why should rubber suddenly appear in a formerly-jungle tile which you have already cleared? Why should a tundra tile still continue to produce fur after you've chopped down the forest, or a jungle tile still produce bananas after you've cleared the jungle? Did the deer inhabiting that plains forest mutate into buffalo when you chopped down the forest? In the case of already discovered resources, maybe you were smart enough save enough of the original terrain to have mink farms or rubber/banana plantations, but evolution takes time to change species (ever hear of extinction caused by habitat loss?). Maybe there should be a "clear __ but save resource" action which takes longer but actually enhances the benefit of the resource. But in the case of undiscovered resources, you wouldn't know what to save - that was the point of the (otherwise unmemorable) movie "Medicine Man" starring Sean Connery. I do like the idea of resource denial through terrain destruction.

A previous thread suggested adding the possibility of "transplanting" certain resources to new tiles. The transplanting of wheat into a wheatless plains tile brought up the argument that "wheat" doesn't really represent wheat, it represents particularly fertile land; whereas "non-wheat" represents less-fertile land. I prefer the notion that all surface-based resources should be theoretically transplantable, but with risks and limitations. Maybe the horsies don't like their new surroundings? Maybe the breadfruit is dormant when you arrive and the long delay on the island makes your crew go "native" and mutiny (remember the classic movie with Clark Gable)? What would happen if you tried to start a rubber plantation in Nebraska?

inca911 - colonies wouldn't work in the situation Mattpilot was talking about because colonies have to be connected to cities. A colony on an island without a city with a harbor (or airport) has no way of getting its resource off the island. Since no cities could be built on this island, nothing gets off the island. Gee, maybe we need a "harbor colony"?

[Lancer]

Originally posted by MarkG
good to see you post on-topic for a change lancer

Oh hell, did I go to the wrong forum again? doh! Senility.

[Lancer]

Originally posted by Zkribbler
first time in years i post on topic and what does markg say? "good to see you post on-topic for a change lancer" lance. lancer! lancer!!! What am I, chopped liver??

Hmm, this is a problem. Zkrib, you need Union representation.

[Lancer]

Originally posted by The_Aussie_Lurker
Well, that was kind of what I was getting at, Yin. Bonus resources-some of which appear as a result of technological advance, but certainly a system which forces a player to choose between an immediate production benefit from cutting it down, or a later benefit via the potential appearance of bonus resources.

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

Yes, but this would infer knowledge of the future. If you're a dude with a sharpened stick, you don't know that one day those funny plants will be used for making tires.

[Lancer]

"a bunch of dinosaurs died there and turned into 10-W40."

WD40 is based on fish oil, not petrolium. Just fyi. I like all your ideas btw. Tobacco was native to north america, but they certainly grow it in Turkey. The worms of the silk industry, try as they might, they eventually got exported from China.

"But in the case of undiscovered resources, you wouldn't know what to save - that was the point of the (otherwise unmemorable) movie "Medicine Man" starring Sean Connery. I do like the idea of resource denial through terrain destruction. "

You said it better than I did.

[patcon]

Originally posted by Lancer
"a bunch of dinosaurs died there and turned into 10-W40."

WD40 is based on fish oil, not petrolium.

Didn't know that about WD40, thanks for the info.

But I said "10-W40" which is the designation of a particular kind of multiviscosity motor oil which is made of petroleum (unless you're talking one of the new synthetics). A single "weight" motor oil is designed to flow freely over a specific range of temperatures. A thick (high weight) motor oil would be good at high temperatures, but almost sludge-like at low temperatures; while a thin (low weight) oil would be good at low temperatures , but watery at high temperatures. Back in "the day" people would actually have to completely flush out one weight oil and replace it with another weight in preparation for summer and winter, mixing oils of different weights didn't work. Multiviscosity oils alleviate that problem and allow the use of a single type of oil all year long in most climates.

WD40 and duck tape are the only 2 tools you'll ever need. If it doesn't move and it should - WD40! If it does move and it shouldn't - duck tape!

BTW - Thanks for the compliment. I read almost every post, but I don't reply unless I think I have something interesting or funny to add. Now ... which kind was this reply?

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Lancer
Hmm, this is a problem. Zkrib, you need Union representation.

[Lancer]

Imran

Originally posted by MarkG
so.... who are you again?

Chopped liver...

[Impaler[WrG]]

It would be kinda neat if some of the rare luxury resorces apeared ONLY near the starting location of a particular civ. So Silk would be close too the Chinese, Tobbaco near the Irriqoius (are they in?) ect ect. Each CIv having a rare resorce that they are almost guaranteed a monopoly on. Or we could skip that and just put it directly into their trade network right out of thin air. These "Monopolitic Resorces" would not apear on the map and it can never be taken away short of total Concuest. Concouring an Enemy Capital wouldgive you their rare resorce. A lot of these resorces could be cultural artifacts like carvings (Mali), paintings (Frace), Liturature (England) or trade secret style stuff like the Silk in China so theirs a bit of justification for it not being a map resorce.