Feature request: Units 'hidding' in forests/jungles

[MattPilot]

Yes.. another request


Would it be possible to make units on forest/jungle squares 'invisible' to enemy units, unless they move a unit into that square?

Kinda like SMAC and fungus squares.

This would help in sneak attacks

And once you are able to build radar stations, you can also detect enemy units in those squares.


What do you all think?

[Proteus_MST]

Sounds good,
but Cities in (or adjacent to) Jungles
should be able to view all units in all the tiles
neighboring the city (regardless of tile type).

After all you can assume,
that cities have watchtowers of a certain heigth
and therefore are better able to spot enemy units,
even in jungles

[Ninot]

i'm against it.

getting a defensive boost from being in a forest seems strong enough.

I wouldnt wanna send troops into a forest and have them die cuz something was hiding there.

[MattPilot]

that cities have watchtowers of a certain heigth

Actually, instead of the radar towers, you could give the "outpost" worker improvement a useful quality that could detect enemy units in forests.

I wouldnt wanna send troops into a forest and have them die cuz something was hiding there.

Like in SMAC, First attempt to move into an occupied square reveals the enemy unit, then you get to decide if you really want to move into that square (attack) or do something else.




A feature like that would add a great strategical element to the combat part of the game. You can use it to your advantage both in attacks and defense.

If you are attacking, if helps you sneak attack. If you have airpower or long range artillery, you can try do destroy the nearby 'outpost', so the defensive player can't see your movement anymore.

If you are defending, you can set up ambushes - let enemy pass, then cut them off. It also helps cover up your force strength at that boarder. And as long as the defender has a nearby outpost intact, the defender has the maneuvering advantage.

[DeathByTheSword]

[General Ludd]

I would only be in favour of such a thing if there where more factors at play. Either make it only possible with units that have a guerilla/partisan ability, or make a special ambush command that either limits mobility or alters atributes/battle mechanics.

[MattPilot]

Originally posted by General Ludd
Either make it only possible with units that have a guerilla/partisan ability,

I'm all for that!

[MattPilot]

Btw.. using only the "partisan" flag rule, we could also include Mountains in that list then. Partisans love to hide in mountains

[Ninot]

i guess it could work then.

while your at it, why not give a partisan-type unit the ability to go into a hiding/submerged type action, where enemy units can even use the tile, and the unit is waiting to come out and start an uprising at a later date?

[DeathByTheSword]

problem is that you probably can only use them in defence and not really for partisan defence or guerrila warfare...in defene together with regular army they can be perfect hiding waiting until the main for is past and taking out the artillery but then they would need support the same turn the attack because after the sure the will be destroyed next turn...in attack it is the same they could attack a city or a unit be be sure with out support of regular army you will lose that unit...turning them in fire and forget weapons almost...

[sophist]

Agreed. Hiding doesn't seem to be useful enough unless they can attack without being revealed. That's a powerful enough capability that it shouldn't be available to all units by default. Perhaps they'd have to earn the ability like the other civ4 combat promotions. Maybe it is restricted to infantry and cavalry. Raiding would be especially interesting if there were supply lines, but that's another discussion for another time.

[MattPilot]

DBTS: I disagree somewhat.

It all depends on your playstyle and the given situation.

I wouldn't necessarily go after a stack with one guerilla unit, hoping to kill one unit, because that surely would mean death in the next turn.

Rather its useful for attacking smaller groups (if you have a group yourself). Also don't forget the ability to move around in 'hidden' terrain after making a sneak attack. The Enemy would have to devote resources(units) and time to finding an enemy unit hopping around in mountainous(sp?) terrain. Kinda like whats happening in afghanistan today. Also, don't forget the defense bonus forests/jungles/mountains provide. That surely would boost the survivability rate of such units.

Another important funtion of them would be to destroy infastructure before a major attack. Kinda like the US sending in commandos into iraq that would get into position and destroy vital routes on the day of the major attack.


**edit: oh and its not like its a super unit. As i've said, there should be tile improvements, like the outpost, that would discover these units.

[DeathByTheSword]

well the problem with civ is that pretty soon and especially in the late stages yout troops can move every where (railroad and before that you only move you troops over a certain area and then cavalry will enough)...so even if you have an succesfull attack and can move 1 tile away after the attack there will be almost no possiblity to survive yes it costs the enemy recources i concur and that is a plus...but i have tried raider tactics in other civs and well you well do limit damage and you always lose you all your units...i love the idea but they have to be cheap units to work...and they nead a high battle value...which will make them super units...

what i am just thinking off is that you can build partisans (now not talking about the hiding function still like that if it is limited) as spies a la civ2...and then a sneak attack option...not destroying unit (also possible but unlikely) but doing damage...and then returning to safe haven...that would work ok...just make sure that the spies in Civ4 dont have that options...

[Impaler[WrG]]

I realy like Ninot's idea, tell your Partisan units to conduct an "Ambush" they need to be in an apropriate terrain type such as mountian, jungle or forest to set up an Ambush. Once the Ambush is set they become invisible AND a unit that dose not see them can enter their terrain tile. If the enemy dose end its turn their then on your turn you have the option to "spring" the ambush and they attack with a giant 100% bonus or something equivilently devistating. The Ambush bonus is only good for attacking units that are ontop of them, it dosen't work for adjacent units so its very dependent on the enemy to "walking into the ambush". After the ambush is spring your unit can move its normal movment for that turn but is once again normal and visible. Setting up an ambush requires a full turn (no movment or attacking) so you cant imediatly set up a new Ambush. Also if an enemy unit is able to detect you (likly by using a scout or an airplane) and they attack from outside your tile you get no Ambush Bonus and your ambush is sprung/nulified with no effect.

[Tattila the Hun]

Would it be possible to add a slight chance off the unit dispersing into the wildernes before it is destroyed, and return to your nearest city or something, after few turns? Kinda like fast units retreating in Civ3?