Add a new small wonder and accompanying unit

[Navyman]

As my name suggests, I like playing with big navies. In that regard, I would like to hear any feedback regarding adding a new small wonder.

How about adding the Newport News Shipyards (NNS) as a small wonder? Benefits would be that the city that has it will will be able to build naval units twice as fast and be able to build a new unit called "Super Carrier."

The prereqs for building NNS would be to have a harbor, a pop of at least 8, be connected to steel and oil, and have Combustion.

The Super Carrier would only be able to be built at a city with NNS and it would carry 14 air units and be 1/3 more difficult to kill than a normal Carrier and have more MPs as well. Also, if there's a way to implement it, the Super Carrier should also make other civs more wary and afraid of you.

Why do I think NNS should be a small wonder? Because it is a wonder of engineering. It takes NNS 5 yrs to build a Nimitz class while the best yards in other countries takes twice as long to build a carrier half the Nimitz's size. Even then, other carriers manages to have their propeller break off during exercises

What do you guys think?

[Solver]

I may sound pessimistic on this one, but I am not yet convinced that navies, big or small, will be important in Civ4. In Civ3, naval dominance had very little importance... I hope it gets changed in some way at least now, so that having a good and strong navy would pay off and so that warships would be useful for something other than escorting transports.

A tougher and better Carrier sounds decent, though. Well, at least as long as the AI would get a decent chance at building it, too.

[Navyman]

One of the best ways that I can think of to making navies viable is to have offshore oil. Then have a ship that can go that offshore oil deposit and convert itself into a rig. Then that would be worth protecting/taking with a navy.

[Solver]

At least we've got confirmed sea-based tile improvements. Hopefully that will be worth protection. Offshore oil sounds great, too, and is perfectly realistic.

[Navyman]

What are some of the sea based tile improvements?

[Solver]

One of the screenshots shows what is clearly a fishery. We don't know anything else about specific sea improvements, I think.

[Solver]

Also, there might be oil in the sea. One screen shows a dark blob in the water, and anothre shows the same blob in a globe map. The only weird thing is that these screens are taken in the Ancient age, but this doesn't really mean it can't be oil.

[Navyman]

Very interesting...

Ancient age? I thought C4 won't have any predefined ages?

But anyways, I always thought that one of the biggest flaws in the Civ series has been near irrelevancy of the navy. Historically, it has been the navy that determined the fortunes of empires. It was the navies of the Mediterranean city-states that made them powerfull, the British empire's navy made it an empire, the US military dominance in these days is made possible with the navy. It was the lack of a suitable German navy that prevented the Brits from being blockaded. Etc. OK, OK, I will stop...

Hopefully, in C4 the navy plays a more important role in empire building.

[curtsibling]

Navies were incredibly important in history...They were
the aspect that decided victory or defeat in most long wars...

I hope blockades and fleets are possible in CIV4.....

[Solver]

The screens are taken in Ancient age, as in during that level of tech - the cities are building archers then. Then again, they may have been taken with the scenario editor and not a real game.

CtP made navies much more relevant by having sea-based tile improvements. I hope Civ4 will really do the same.

[Trifna]

1- One aspect is that you need some key area which are actually useful to guard/protect (beaches, cities, Gibraltar-like...).

2- The only way to get a navy that actually protect something is to make so that it can actually control some area in some way. This means the implementation of a mecanism of some kind, and we didn't hear anything about that.

Maybe if it would be possible to block passing units when you decide to, or some auto-attack... but I never heard of this in Civ4.

[Solver]

If you play on island/continent maps, it will become likely navies could be used to protect some strategic spots. But I don't think there will be any added mechanism. Afte all, land units protect places by either numbers (creating a line along the border/chokepoint) or just by being ready to repel whatever attack.

Now, if there truly are resources in the sea, in addition to sea improvements, I'm sure that defending those will be worthwhile.

[Vince278]

It would help to remember why navies are built in the first place.

[Shogun Gunner]

Re: Add a new small wonder and accompanying unit

Originally posted by Navyman
...to build a new unit called "Super Carrier."

The prereqs for building NNS would be to have a harbor, a pop of at least 8, be connected to steel and oil, and have Combustion.

Since you identify the Nimitz class as being the identity of the Super Carrier, should it be nuke power, not combusion as a pre-req?

I'm for any ideas that improve the relevancy of the navy in civ. A greater diversity of naval units could help counterbalance the emphasis on land units.

[The_Aussie_Lurker]

Also, if trade routes can be seen-and pirated/disrupted-then it will also give navies another important use (again, as it was in CtP). Of course, unlike CtP, breaking or pirating a trade route should NOT be automatic, but should be based on the strength of the unit AND the current tech level of the nation that formed the route in the first place (at the very least!)
Of course, some units should obviously be better at dirupting/pirating trade routes than others!!

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.