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  • Massive Single Player scenario

    Please forgive the partial repost of my CPT2 entry but I fully realise that this forum might well have a considerably larger membership than the CTP2 one.

    So here goes ....

    I understand that the CTP2 Editor permits one to make truly enormous maps (there is a truly gigantic World Map of circa 11 000 x 11000 tiles available for download at this site) while, by sharp contrast, the original (but considerably newer) Civ3 Editor is restricted to a paltry maximum of circa 250x250 tiles. Therefore, the above comparison suggests that the CTP2 Editor should provide the ambitious designer with the opportunity of creating a truly monumental scenario that might qualify as an authentic MSP (Massive Single Player) game. [Although this particular type of gaming experience will not be to everyone’s liking, it should enable a gamer the opportunity of playing at his/her own pace against the computer-generated ai for weeks (or even months) in a single titanic scenario (that would be fairly compatible in size to that of the average MMO game). This MSP format would be exempt from the seemingly ubiquitous MMO-specific problem of being attacked by opponents while one is asleep or otherwise occupied away from the game. In addition, this game format should be free of other potential negative human interactions].

    Surely, I am not unique in my desire to experience the epic challenge of a true MSP scenario as I am (quite frankly) becoming extremely bored and increasingly frustrated by being basically forced to play multiple one or two hour long scenarios on postage-sized maps. I know that most of these commercial (RTS) games have been deliberately designed for the average teenage player with a severely limited attention span but what about the older and more committed player who would like a somewhat deeper and more expansive gaming experience. Imho, these “mass-market” games characterized by severely restricted maximum map sizes and population caps seriously lack ambition. They generally merely represent “fast food”-type games with “jaw-dropping” graphics and highly derivative gameplay options. It is these ultra high-tech graphics that require powerful graphics cards and processors as well as huge amounts of memory to run that have severely (possibly terminally) limited the ability of most developers to even consider the possibility of creating an authentic MSP game.

    It should therefore hopefully be feasible to conduct ones empire building on a truly massive scale (and I am most certainly not advocating the type of unit “spawning” that occurs in the Cossacks and American Conquest series as the player must be required to work fairly hard for each unit created or building erected I an MSP game in order to derive maximum satisfaction from his/her game playing experience and exploits). The primary focus of the empire building strategy would demarcate the “builder-warrior” (one who prefers building new cities and structures) from the “warrior-builder” (one who prefers to create great armies often featuring a diverse selection of military units).

    Before one could even attempt to create a meaningful MSP game from this capacity seemingly afforded by CTP2, it would be necessary to investigate what type of modifications would need to be introduced in order to facilitate optimal gameplay on a truly gigantic map. Indeed, it would seem a reasonable idea to restrict this proposed mega scenario to the Ancient and Medieval periods (not only to encourage a certain mystical ambience but also to prevent it from becoming bogged down in the way distant future as a direct result of its significantly enhanced longevity).

    WILL THIS BE POSSIBLE WITH CIV 4?

  • #2
    Well it seems like it'd be possible. We know that there are ways to calibrate how many turns there are in the game and how fast different things are completed, the only other thing you need is a big-ass map and with the amount of customization that they're promising that should be doable...
    Stop Quoting Ben

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    • #3
      Bosh:

      Many thanks for your reply.

      This certainly sounds most exciting .... now I am really looking forward to the release of Civ 4.

      Hopefully one of the devs might be prepared to provide some definitive information in this regard.

      Comment


      • #4
        However, you don't necessarily need a huge map to be able to have a very very long and fun single player scenario. You could just make tech take a very long time to research and everything except for military units (especially settles) take a very long time to build.
        Stop Quoting Ben

        Comment


        • #5
          Bosh:

          Yes .... that is indeed correct.

          However, I must admit that I have a fairly interesting (and highly tactical) map design in mind that I would really like to be able to create as a (mega)scenaro for a top class commercial game (such as Civ 4).

          It has been evolving for several years now .... so that it would be great to finally be able to not only just create it but also to test it (to see whether it is a viable proposition).

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          • #6
            "The code for the AI and the game core will be available - I can't explain exactly what is in the game core but it's basically how the game runs and what makes it Civ. Adding terrain and eras will not be a problem."
            be free

            Comment


            • #7
              Snoopy:

              This is indeed very promising .... hopefully nothing important (such as map size, city number, population cap, etc.) has been hardcoded into the game engine.

              If everything is freely open to manipulation and "ambitious" modding, Civ 4 could be the greatest game ever released. Imho, it is about high time that a truly "moddable" game without any inbuilt (and inevitably highly restrictive) limitations was released.

              Comment


              • #8
                This might be the civ to end all civs.

                Can you imagine what might happen once this is released?

                Considering the number of modders out there who do nothing but mod Civ with a passion, I can't begin to imagine how many different kinds of Civilization games we will have access to.

                It's a very very smart move on Firaxis part.

                "Hey lets make Civ open-ended, that way, we don't have to keep making another Civilization to please the fans, and move on with our other dreams."

                Good one!
                be free

                Comment


                • #9
                  Snoopy:

                  Hopefully there will be a way found to enable modders to insert ADDITIONAL material into Civ 4 rather than merely substitute existing Firaxis material with their own creations.

                  This would be truly awesome .... an expandible strategy game (like "The Sims", "Sim City" and "Zoo Tycoon"). Also, in this vein, it would be brilliant if several of these mods (additions) were to be designed to be FULLY compatible with one another.

                  With Civ 3, most of the mods were designed in an extremely random fashion .... maybe Apolyton can try to integrate the mods a bit so that the fans can actively help Apolyton to create a "true legend of our times".

                  "Firaxis and the Community working in harmony".
                  Last edited by Son of moose; May 27, 2005, 14:16.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Massive Single Player scenario

                    Originally posted by Son of moose
                    I understand that the CTP2 Editor permits one to make truly enormous maps (there is a truly gigantic World Map of circa 11 000 x 11000 tiles available for download at this site) while, by sharp contrast, the original (but considerably newer) Civ3 Editor is restricted to a paltry maximum of circa 250x250 tiles. Therefore, the above comparison suggests that the CTP2 Editor should provide the ambitious designer with the opportunity of creating a truly monumental scenario that might qualify as an authentic MSP (Massive Single Player) game. [Although this particular type of gaming experience will not be to everyone’s liking, it should enable a gamer the opportunity of playing at his/her own pace against the computer-generated ai for weeks (or even months) in a single titanic scenario (that would be fairly compatible in size to that of the average MMO game). This MSP format would be exempt from the seemingly ubiquitous MMO-specific problem of being attacked by opponents while one is asleep or otherwise occupied away from the game. In addition, this game format should be free of other potential negative human interactions].
                    Except it would take a really long time to run, especially with 3d stuff.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Kuciwalker:

                      Yes .... 3D is most definitely a "doubled-edged blade".

                      Nevertheless, I am a very patient man.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Sn00py
                        This might be the civ to end all civs.

                        Can you imagine what might happen once this is released?

                        Considering the number of modders out there who do nothing but mod Civ with a passion, I can't begin to imagine how many different kinds of Civilization games we will have access to.
                        Well, it all depends on how easy it is to modify the game once it is released. Someone mentioned the CtP2 source code in the Community forum and how nothing much came out of that. That's (partly) because coding is not so easy.

                        Of course, since Civ4 will be a cool new game, and not an old one, more people will try their hand at modding it, but still, if it is restrictively hard (read: requires coding to accomplish anything), then not many will last to create anything worthwhile.

                        I am optimistic, however.

                        It would be really amazing to have the same amount of community activity as the Sims gets.
                        XBox Live: VovanSim
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                        Halo 3 Service Record (I fail at FPS...)
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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by vovan
                          Well, it all depends on how easy it is to modify the game once it is released. Someone mentioned the CtP2 source code in the Community forum and how nothing much came out of that. That's (partly) because coding is not so easy.
                          Timing is everything...

                          I would argue that the audience was never really there - if the code had come out soon after the release of CTP2, there would be a lot more success in that area. This is not to say that there hasn't been any success, but unlike civ3, I really think that civ4 has the capabilities (based on potential) to bury CTP in this area - and saying this as an avid CTP2 player, I feel that civ4 will be the best civ game, bar none.

                          It just took Firaxis 5 years (and four attempts - civ3, PTW, C3C and civ4) to pull it off...
                          Yes, let's be optimistic until we have reason to be otherwise...No, let's be pessimistic until we are forced to do otherwise...Maybe, let's be balanced until we are convinced to do otherwise. -- DrSpike, Skanky Burns, Shogun Gunner
                          ...aisdhieort...dticcok...

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                          • #14
                            I'm not sure any personal computer is capable of running a game smoothly with a truly GIGANTIC map with 18 civilizations.

                            Unless you have the latest, most powerful personal computer on the market right now and you buy a new computer every four months.
                            A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.

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                            • #15
                              MrFun:

                              I'm not sure any personal computer is capable of running a game smoothly with a truly GIGANTIC map with 18 civilizations.
                              Indeed, it might well prove rather tricky right now even with a 3.0Ghz processor and 1.0 GB of memory. However, in two or three years time, it could well be an entirely different matter (remember Moore's Law). After all, CTP2 is now about 5 years old and was built with this massive extra capacity ....

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