Chitter AI.

[Robert]

Originally posted by Modo44

Please make the AI better at the highest difficulty levels. I believe that is the real goal. Cheating is only there because the designers could not make the AI clever.

of course, first make it better!
if you can't make it good enough (which will not be possible if you want to finish the game in the next 15 years) fix the holes with cheating.

[Adagio]

Sure. And one of the easiest things to fix is this problem:

Upon seeing an AI settler pair wondering thru tundra or desert, instead of blocking it or attacking it immedately, wait for it to found a city, and then attack. This will ensure you know which area to expect oil.

How hard can it be to actually make unknown resources invisible to the AI

[Robert]

doesn't sound that hard in my humble opinion.....
I wonder, is it purposed cheating (ie. only in king and heigher) or is it cheating that happens in all levels?

[The_Aussie_Lurker]

I always play out a game, even when I am badly losing-just because I enjoy the process of PLAYING the game-rather than winning. Of course, I DO tend to give up by the modern age, but thats usually due to micromanagment issues (the Modern Age Malaise, as I call it).
I have noticed myself reloading games more often though-much to my disappointment-but usually only after the AI gets a MASSIVE run of luck in combat.

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

[joncnunn]

Here's the parallel universe: "If the AI were human"

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=120799

Originally posted by Shogun Gunner
Humans always cheat more than the AI.

1. Restarts
2. Reloads
3. Exploits
4. Mods

In a parallel universe somewhere the computers are the ones that play the games and we are the toys. They get together and complain bitterly about our total lack of logic and consistency.

[joncnunn]

CyberShy, there's a difference between "cheat" and "handicap"

I expect that Civ IV will continue to have various levels of handicaps.

The handicaps in Civ III are:

production advantage / disadvantage
extra units starting on Monarch
extra free unit support starting on Monarch
science advantage / disadvantage

The cheats in Civ III are

AI Trade Bonus
Full knowlege of their discovered portion of the map [except it's so badly used by the AI]

Handcaps are good, and pre-date computer games.

Golf [adjustment to score], Chess [one side down a piece or pieces]

Cheats are bad

Originally posted by CyberShy
Please let the AI cheat in the heighest levels!
Otherwise it would be too easy. If you don't want the AI to cheat, just pick the middle-lever. (regent or whatever it may be in cIV)

[joncnunn]

Adagio, it's extremely easy, in fact many SSI games of the last 80s and early 90s featured AI always operates with "fog of war" on even if the human turns it off. Making "fog of war" off a human cheat.

Originally posted by Adagio
Sure. And one of the easiest things to fix is this problem:

Upon seeing an AI settler pair wondering thru tundra or desert, instead of blocking it or attacking it immedately, wait for it to found a city, and then attack. This will ensure you know which area to expect oil.

How hard can it be to actually make unknown resources invisible to the AI

[joncnunn]

That could be in part because you are overestimating your odds of victory.

On feature that I miss the most from SMAC is the display the odds when attempting to attack option before commiting. (Default was off, but you could turn this on.)
In addition, by default, you'd get a warning if your odds of a successful attack were really bad.

Remember that defensive units get terraign defense bonsus. Those fortified get fortifaction defense bonus. Those in size 7-12 cities effectively get the walls defense bonsus. Those in size 1+ cities effective get double the walls defense bonsus. And all the bonsuses are cumulative.

Originally posted by The_Aussie_Lurker

I have noticed myself reloading games more often though-much to my disappointment-but usually only after the AI gets a MASSIVE run of luck in combat.

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

[Shogun Gunner]

Great link Jon. Pretty funny!

[Xorbon]

Originally posted by Shogun Gunner
In a parallel universe somewhere the computers are the ones that play the games and we are the toys. They get together and complain bitterly about our total lack of logic and consistency.

If the AI played like a human, there'd still be people complaining about how the AI isn't consistent or predictable. I mean, people keep complaining about the AI attacking when 'polite' or attacking for no apparent reason. Imagine the complaints if it was even more unpredictable.

[Jaybe]

Originally posted by Xorbon
If the AI played like a human, there'd still be people complaining about how the AI isn't consistent or predictable. I mean, people keep complaining about the AI attacking when 'polite' or attacking for no apparent reason. Imagine the complaints if it was even more unpredictable.

A primary way to avoid AI predictability would be to make such decisions just a weighted random choice.

Instead of
"If (A) Then (B)"
have it
"If (A) Then 80% (B)
Else (C)"

[vulture]

i think Soren has said elsewhere that most AI cheats end up being counterproductive in the long run. Stuff like the level-based production bonuses are unavoidable, and necessary, so they're staying. But in a game like civ, which gets analysed to death, and being turn-based, we have the time to study everything if we want to, AI cheats (like knowing the location of resources, or which cities are undefended) become known fairly quickly. And the vast majority of the time, they end up becoming a liability to the AI rather than a help. In Civ3 there have been various tricks for persuading the AI to run backwards and forwards between empty cities so that it delays an actual attack indefinitely. There is knowing resources, which ultimately lets the player know where resources are (such as seeing which of those crap cities the AI will give up for peace), which leads to the AI losing them more quickly than if it never knew they were there in the first place.

Then there are the terminally annoying cheats, such as the trading techs during the players turn (which was patched out due to being too annoying). Or, from civ2, stealing a tech (such as flight) with a spy, and then during the same turn attacking with bombers (which it would have been impossible to build). Obvious cheats like that just annoy players.

But given the potential for any cheats to be exploited by players, I'd be surprised if the AI advantage went beyond the entirely customisable production / research bonuses and penalties (and maybe the extra happiness, unit support, free units, which don't have anything to do with AI behaviour as such).

[playshogi]

One cheat I would like to see implemented for the AI is to load up their transports to the max. Just put the units on a transport even if they don't have enough movement to actually get there.

[joncnunn]

playshogi, imagine the complaints the first time someone sees an AI unit sudenly transport from one tile he sees to a boat on another tile he sees.

Or the complaints the first time it's obvious that a unit was created by magic on a transport.

[Kataphraktoi]

the main point of the ai is to be so fun and at least a bit good enough not to need cheats.playing civ3 on sid,that just wasnt playing the same game as the ai frankly