The Theoretical Role/position of mechs on the battlefield

[Kc7mxo]

i think modern infantry weapons are fast making armored vehicles obsolete, at least until we get some sort of next level armor plating. even the depleted uranium sheeting they use on some of those vehicles isn't good enough.

if we were to fight an actual modern war where everyone agreed not to use nukes, we'd probably end up entirly on foot and in cheapo apcs after all the tanks got blown to hell rather quickly.

[The_Aussie_Lurker]

Man, and when I checked out this thread, I thought he was referring to the role of MECHanized Infantry in Civ4 (as opposed to them simply being left in your cities in Civ2 and Civ3 ). For the record, I think the physics-as we currently understand it-completely rules out the possibility of the mechs from Battletech (i.e. weight distribution over a given area). However, I do think that powered armour is within the realms of possibility-though possibly not for at least a few more decades.
Anyway, just my feelings on the matter.

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

[Shogun Gunner]

sadly, no, a discussion of mechanized infantry would have been far more interesting.

[Addled Platypus]

and now for somrthing completely different


MI with the new assault weapons with the video link

you can see the battle from their perspective

[lajzar]

Originally posted by Modo44

And if you actually apply physics, the foot size would have to be enormous to carry any reasonable weight.

Actually, if you do the maths, you'll find that the ground pressure of a modern tank is typically about 1/10 that of an ordinary unencumbered human, which is also about an order of magnitude lower than a typical commercially available estate car (station wagon).

Tanks have a ridiculously low ground pressure compared to what you might expect. Humans will sink into the ground long before tanks will. The crucial difference is that humans are usually smart enough and agile enough to get out quickly.

For slightly different reasons, total weight can be an issue. While the ground pressure on any given square inch is low, when crossing bridges, the total weight gets placed on the structural supports of the bridge, creating a psi on those that is usually above design considerations. In aerated ground and land with near-surface caverns/excavations, a similar issue is present.

[AeonOfTime]

Errrm, weren't there mechs in Call to power? I think I remember a big red thingie on two legs. Actually I wouldn't mind having a mech unit in the game, but somewhere after future tech #20

[Boris Godunov]

Using CtP as an example for anything to use in Civ is a seriously flawed premise.

Mechs are retarded and they suck. The Galactic Empire learned why mechs are such awful units when theirs were undone by teddy bears with rocks and sticks.

[Modo44]

Originally posted by lajzar
Actually, if you do the maths, you'll find that the ground pressure of a modern tank is typically about 1/10 that of an ordinary unencumbered human, which is also about an order of magnitude lower than a typical commercially available estate car (station wagon).

Great for a tank. It is low, both it's "feet" are rather huge, and never have to be raised. Even if standing steel, a 100 tonnes mech would put more pressure down that a tank. If it rises a leg, you get double as much. If it tries to walk, or run, it will land on it's a$$, with the one leg burried in the ground. The area of the foot touching the ground is too small in most "designs" FASA sells in their books. Maybe, just maybe, the small ones would not always sink like that.

Originally posted by lajzar
Tanks have a ridiculously low ground pressure compared to what you might expect. Humans will sink into the ground long before tanks will. The crucial difference is that humans are usually smart enough and agile enough to get out quickly.

But humans are more agile than any machine. If you want to compare, try running through mud. Not shallow mud, but something deep, at least 0,5 m thick. This is a mech on normal ground. You might be able to walk it one small step after another (If you rise a leg for too long you sink.) but any vehicle is much faster than that so there is no point in doing it.

And there is the simple fact that we have absolutely no material that can carry the dynamic movement of 95 tonnes over it in a fashion a foot would. Yes, we can put that much and more on a concrete pillar but it shatters because of earthquakes. Now imagine trying to run. Really, it is simple physics.

(And no, I am not able to do the counting. I just walk on small-grain sand every now and then. It happens to be much more difficult than crawling...)

[MxM]

I am not sure what is the exact definition of a Mech, but if remote controlled or completely self sufficient two legged military robot of relatively small size (Terminator type?) can be called a mech then it may have sense to have it.
There are few advantages:
1) Urban warfare - tanks do not cut for it. Mech can enter buildings and staff.
2) No need for human - saves solder lives.
3) Even if there is human inside, then it is better protected then just a solder.

Their advantage over tank is the small size, not the big size, as typically portrayed in most movies.

[Modo44]

Originally posted by MxM
I am not sure what is the exact definition of a Mech, but if remote controlled or completely self sufficient two legged military robot of relatively small size (Terminator type?) can be called a mech then it may have sense to have it.

No, this definition is wrong. The things TMed as mechs are gigantic machines, of 10-20 metres height, and up to 100 tonnes weight. This is why I am talking about mere physics killing the very design. Smaller (much smaller) machines of this kind are doable.

[Perfection]

All you folks are whining about the "phyisics" and "realisim" of it.

SCREW IT!

Giant Death Robots are about the sheer terror of having a massive metal "man" coming after you. There is no mercy, there is no safety, only sheer awesomeness.

[Rook]

Even tanks are somewhat obsolete by today's standards. Anything that expenisve that can't fly is pretty much a waste of money if you are going to send it into combat.

Sure, they are good for smashing 3rd world countries, but missles and smart bombs are the way of the future. That and good old infantry.

[Willem]

Why bring up a pointless thread that's been dead for over 6 months?

[Locutus]

This thread is stupid, old, dead, done to death, off topic and the starter wanted it deleted. I'm gonna do everyone a favour and kill it. And unless Firaxis announces they're doing a Mech/Giant Death Robots scenario or you're working on one of your own, don't think about starting a new one on this topic either. This 'joke' wasn't funny 2 years ago, it wasn't funny 1 year ago, it wasn't funny 6 months ago and it isn't funny now.