Calling all mod'rs

[Addled Platypus]

Begginers guide on how to mod in python

http://sthurlow.com/python/

[Vince278]

Thanks. A good start in Python. Anyone want to provide info on XML?

[Locutus]

There are many places to learn about Python, one that I like myself is the tutorial on the official website: http://www.python.org/moin/BeginnersGuide (it should be noted that it covers most aspects of Python, it's quite extensive). This one is particularly good for people with zero programming experience.

I would indeed recommend that everyone who wants to get into Python for Civilization 4 start looking into tutorials like these before the game's release. You now have all the time in the world anyway, so you can see what it's like and if it would be something for you (not everyone will be into it). Then, when you get your hands on Civilization 4, you only need to learn the Civ4-specific parts of Python before you can start writing scripts.

As far as XML goes, if you want to see an example of XML, go to the menu View of your browser and select Source or Page Source or something like that (depending on your browser). You'll see the HTML source of this page, that's a fine example of what XML looks like (it's not actually XML, but very, very similar; XML is based on HTML). XML allows programmers to make up their own 'language', so there's no way to predict what XML for Civilization 4 will look like, that's entirely up to the programmers at Firaxis. However, all XML languages look alike. The portion of XML that stores the unit data might look something like this:

<Unit>
    <Type>Spearman</Type>
    <Class>Melee</Class>
    <CostToBuild>240</CostToBuild>
    <MaintenanceCostShield>2</MaintenanceCostShield>
    <MaintenanceCostFood>0</MaintenanceCostFood>
    <MovementPoints>1</MovementPoints>
    <StrengthValue>4</StrengthValue>
    <BonusAgainstHorse>100</BonusAgainstHorse>
    <BonusAgainstTank>0</BonusAgainstTank>
</Unit>

Of course, the details such as exact names and stats will be different and presumably there will be many, many more stats, but the basic idea is always the same. All other in-game data will be stored using a similar pattern.

As you can see, providing Firaxis uses meaningful naming conventions XML should be pretty easy and intuitive to use, and at least for simple modding the learning curve is almost much flat (you only need to figure out where everything is located)...

[Vince278]

Originally posted by Locutus
so there's no way to predict what XML for Civilization 4 will look like,


However, all XML languages look alike.

[Locutus]

By that I mean that the pattern in XML is always the same:

<SomeDataType>
   <SomeProperty>SomeValue</SomeProperty>
   <SomeProperty>SomeValue</SomeProperty>
   <SomeProperty>SomeValue</SomeProperty>
   <SomeProperty>SomeValue</SomeProperty>
</SomeDataType>

However, all the details of an XML language, such as the exact names of the datatypes, properties, etc and the exact values that are allowed, and of course what impact they will have when you use the language, those differ per language. E.g. in HTML <b> displays text in bold, in Civ4 it will probably mean nothing and generate an error. In Civ4 <StrengthValue> might indicate the unit strength, in HTML it means nothing. Thus, exactly what XML for Civ4 will be like is impossible to predict, but it will still follow the same pattern that all XML languages use.

To compare it to natural languages: knowing that Civ4 will be XML is like knowing a language is Germanic. But to be able to speak that language, you will still need to know whether it is English or Dutch or German or Swedish or Frisian, etc. Without knowing that you still won't be able to make yourself understandable in that language. All those languages may have a lot in common, but they also have a lot of differences.

[Donegeal]

I was just thinking of posting a thread asking for this info. Thanks!

-Nudge-

Hey, Mark, I think this would be a good thread to top in the CivIV creation forum (when it will inevitably come).

[self biased]

anyone interested in starting groundwork for a fantasy mod?

[Vince278]

Originally posted by Donegeal
I was just thinking of posting a thread asking for this info. Thanks!

-Nudge-

Hey, Mark, I think this would be a good thread to top in the CivIV creation forum (when it will inevitably come).

Great idea. This will be a huge subject generating lots of questions (and threads) when the time comes.

[Senethro]

I'm not so interested in a fantasy mod but in a Alpha Centauri recreation mod. I've whispered here and there that it would be a good idea. I don't think anyone would object to having working Social Engineering or Unit Workshop code available for incorporation into their own mods and it would be a mod for gathering experience with Civ4.

Any thoughts?

[Vince278]

Could do a Centauri type mod that allows "colonization" of the moon and the other planets and moons of the solar system. I always thought we should expand out more before going to A.C.

[Nikolai]

Senethro: Nice idea, but first I think I want to play Civ4.

[LDiCesare]

Locutus, your xml examples are only one possibility of doing xml. There's also this one:
<Unit name="Spearman" strength="2" someProperty="someValue"/>
I don't think Soren showed an example of what the actual format would look like? Although I definitely perfer the more verbose one using <x>value</x> instead of x="value" since you can't do everything with the latter format but can with the former.
[edited the lt; > stuff]

[Locutus]

My my example was not supposed to be exhaustive, there are other things I didn't mention either (e.g. I didn't really mention (multi-layer) nesting). IMO attributes work nicely in HTML but should be avoided whenever possible in XML (there are some distinct disadvantages to them, as you said). And this is also usually what you usually see in practice. But yes, it is indeed a good form of XML that I problably should have mentioned...

Edit: for those who don't know how to read the example LDiCesare mentioned, I'll repost it in a readable form:

<Unit name="Spearman" strength="2" someProperty="someValue"/>

[Lemmy]

hmm...with proper stylesheets this could make it easy to create online civpedias for mods

[Locutus]

Yes, that is one of the great things about XML, you can really easily re-use existing XML documents it to develop your own tools. Fan-made editors, reference charts, websites, etc should all be pretty easy to make.