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**Adagio** · April 16, 2005, 11:34

I don't remember how it was in ctp1/2 and never really liked air combat in Civ games...

**Shogun Gunner** · April 16, 2005, 15:10

Civ3 is a bit better than Civ2, but there could still be some improvements. I do remember this being discussed at some point.

One very interesting thread is Navies 2 about naval strategy which includes naval air power in the OP.

**Zoid** · April 17, 2005, 12:53

What is the difference between earlier Civs and Civ 3. I can´t really remember... I don´t really use Air Combat that much, I just like to bomb the crap outta civs that are way behind me in development. When they can scramble fighters it´s not that fun anymore

**Shogun Gunner** · April 18, 2005, 01:45

one simple change that I like is you don't have to move each air unit tediously through every tile. Simple to select mission and target.

For example, improved Rebasing and scouting to eliminate extra clicking or keystrokes.

Bombardment versus a 1 on 1 attack. Specifc and dedicated Air defense unit... all new in Civ3 from Civ2

**Zoid** · April 18, 2005, 04:10

Oh, right. Then I definitely prefer Civ3 style air combat.

**Xorbon** · April 19, 2005, 23:22

Originally posted by Shogun Gunner
Civ3 is a bit better than Civ2, but there could still be some improvements. I do remember this being discussed at some point.

Ditto.

For those who don't remember Civs 1 & 2, air units (including nuclear units) moved just like every other unit. They could travel over any type of terrain including water. Fighters had to return to a base by the end of the turn or they'd die. Bombers could spend one turn away from a base before having to return on the following turn. Helicopters could move around indefinitely, but would lose one hp per turn off base.

Air units attacked just like any other unit as well. So, you had situations where a bomber would be taken out by phalanx! Ah, the memories.

**Shogun Gunner** · April 19, 2005, 23:51

and don't forget about miscounting the number of tiles when guiding your bomber back to base...the growing uneasy feeling growing in the pit of your stomach as you counted backwards wondering if you had enough movement points to land that baby home....the despair that overwhelmes when you realize you will be one tile short....the resignation as you order your pilots to bail out -- wasting precious war material...

Or the ever popular:
1) Launch Bomber to the max of turn 1's movement
2) Lose that city which based the bomber to enemy forces
3) Realize that you had nowhere else to land your bomber wing, so it immediately becomes a kamikazi bomber wing

You could kill two units in two turns with one bomber unit....of course, losing your unit in the process. Where did they get that second load of bombs without landing the planes?

The bombers hanging out over a target fora year (one turn) was oh-so-realistic in itself. Civ3 air warfare = much better

**realpolitic** · April 20, 2005, 15:55

Civ3 is a pretty decent model.

**Puupertti Ruma** · April 20, 2005, 19:24

Some suggestions to the Civ3 model which should help a lot:

1. There should be a ring or some indicator showing the air superiority mission. Enemies should also see this, so they can judge the risks of bombing.

2. Strafe/Dive Bombers: Bomber unit which is more accurate and effective against land units and ships. Think of P-52 Mustangs shooting the Tiger on Saving Private Ryan, or Stukas on WWII. I find it quite dumb bombing tanks and infantry with heavy bombers like B-17. This of course means a some clever altering or utilization of the battle system.

3. Better recon. Maybe automatic, unless player wants to fly to enemys air zone (protected with Air Superiority mission).

4. Aggressive Air Superiority. Way to attack enemy Air superiority zones, to decline the enemy their air superiority and get a Air Superiority. Maybe Air Superiority mission could be made in to 2 separate missions, Air Superiority and Defend Air Space. Air Superiority would be attacking to the enemy air space, and Defend Air Space would defend against fighters and bombers alike, working like the Civ3 air superiority mission. Same effect could be achieved with only one mission, but at least I can't figure out a way.

5. The ability to form squadrons from fighters and bombers. Eliminates micromanagering, as you don't have to do the tedious job of ordering 30 or so bombers on same mission.

6. Ability to target a improvements in a city without smart weapons. In WWII, heavy bombers were used mainly to bomb on bridges, factories, airfields and such, so this is actually more realistic. Also there could be the possibility of Terror Bombing attacking the population, same way as in Dresden annihilation or the Germany's bombings of London. The difference with smart weapons could be the accuracy and collateral damage.

Ok, that's about all I could come up this time. And it turned out to be a lot. Comments, more suggestions, anything?

**Shogun Gunner** · April 20, 2005, 21:08

I like number 5 suggestion. Kinda like armies for the air -- which is precisely how Army Air Force was organized in World War 2.

Regarding the strafing, tactical bombing being more effective than strategic bombing of tanks, I would suggest there is more than one way to cripple an enemy tank unit from the air. The first suggestion, yours, was tank busting. Don't forget that destroying supply, command and control and morale can all contribute to neutralizing enemy armor units. Carpet bombing by strategic bombers was standard practice in France 1944.

**Addled Platypus** · April 23, 2005, 02:46

to include fighter esorts within the same squadron

or go to the detail of assigning a new fighter squadron to this task

**yockey** · April 27, 2005, 13:50

In my mind the worst thing about air combat in CIV 3 was that my plains could not sink enemy ships.

I seem to recall something about Pearl Harbor....

**GePap** · April 28, 2005, 11:24

I think the power of air superiority needs to be increased. Also, get an AI that will try to use air power effectively.

**Beta** · April 28, 2005, 22:54

From Ruma on down - all good suggestions.

I especially like Ruma's # 4 from above. Use the Battle of Britain as a prime example - with the Luftwaffe trying to gain air superiority over the Brits.