Navy

[Elda king]

Transport ships should have no atack/defense. And we on really have trade routes, because to the cities connect to each other by harbors they should have Coast/Sea/Ocean routes. But maybe we should have a Trade Ship unit, that makes a trade route, like a road, that gives movement bonus and can be pillaged by enemy ships.

[TechWins]

Re: Navy

Originally posted by Lambiorix_be
Does anyone think the current types of ships are really that different?

I don't see any obvious incentive to create destroyers once I can make battleships and never any incentive to create a cruiser for that matter. I do noticed however that the AI very much likes the destroyer

Only exception is the carrier.

I hope this will be improved in the newest version..

This has probably already been mentioned but the cost difference in modern ships can make it more beneficial to build the cheaper destoryers or cruisers over battleships.

I do agree that the naval portion of Civ2&3 are extremely weak. Incorporating them into the trade/resource system would probably add a lot of new strategy and tactics with navies. Also, a better exploration age (i.e. when caravels, frigates, etc... start to become available) where most of the map hasn't already been discovered by some wandering warrior and/or galley/curragh would helpt out a lot. The whole map/communcation trading process in Civ3 screws things up, IMO, too. One turn after you discover map making you can basically know what the entire world looks like, which I find to be very dull and unrealistic. The dull part is more important to me than the unrealistic portion, as well, btw.

[Proteus_MST]

CtP had a nice System,
with PT Boats being able to see Subs and Destroyers being able to defend the fleet against air attacks.

Maybe you could incorporate a much moire specialized system, with:
1. Frigates being used for defense against Air attacks
2. Aegis Cruisers for Defense against air Attacks and cruise missiles
3. Destroyers being able to see and attack Subs and the player also being able to send the destroyers on mission to protect their trade routes
4. Subs being able to pirate trade routes with the enemy player only having a small chance to detect which nation attacked his trade (maybe 10%). This all changes if enough destroyers are assigned to protect the trade routes. Then the attacked nation has a much higher chance to detect which nation they were attacked from (maybe 40-50%) and there is also a good chance that the attackers will be found ands destroyed.
They would also have a good chance to severely damage or even sink ships in fleets without anti sub capabilities (for example lonely battleships/carriers)
5. Battleships of course functioning as long range Artillery against other ships and installations on land, as usual
6. And of course carriers function as usual as a base for fighters, being able to attack with them and using them for CAP to protect the fleet against incoming fighters.

Maybe you could have a special type of plane being build for use against ships:
"Torpedo planes"
They are useless against land units and also have only slight defense against other fighters, but they can be deadly against ships, especially if the enemy fleet lacks air defense capabilities.

You could have a special kind of Attack for Torp-Planes and subs:
"Torpedo attack"
It could be used against fleets in tiles adjacend to the sub/plane (just like bombard) and would encompass the plane/sub getting as near as possible to the target to make its torpedo strikes as deadly as possible.
If the target has no anti bus/anti plane capabilities, bad luck, as it is very probably dead meat
On the other hand, if the other fleet has anti sub/plane capabilities, success depends on some variables, i.e. the number of attacking subs (if you are able to group them into fleets) and the number of anti sub/plane ships and fighters on CAP.
The higher the number of anti sub/fighter ships and planes on CAP, the lesser the damage attacking subs could cause with their torpedo attacks and the higher the chance that the attacking sub(s)/torpedo plane(s) get killed.
The higher the number of attacking subs/torp planes, the higher the chance for them to kill/damage the target(s)

This way every type of ship would play a certain role. No Frigates within the fleet? Bads luck if you encounter enemy planes
No Destroyers there? Better not encounter an enemy sub

[TechWins]

This is sort of related to naval; it would be nice if the random map editor was able to better create real seas, such as the Mediterranean Sea, the Red Sea, Black Sea, etc... Seas are very crucial landpoints, just ask the US military from the two Iraq wars. In Civ3 very rarely do seas exist. It seems to me that most of the time it follows the normal routine of going 1 ros of coastline followed by 1 or 2 rows of sea and of course the rest is ocean. Having better developed seas for entry points into certain land areas would add to the value of naval units and make the naval portion of the game more interesting.

[Max Sinister]

@Proteus: Frigates defend against Air units? Even if we're only talking about zeppelins and balloons it's difficult to imagine. Your other ideas are good.

[jatf]

What is really needed is a better system of ship classification. Destoyers in WW1 were totally different to WW2 and completely different today. Yet they remain the same in CIV.

Although the cruiser to AEGIS crusier path in Civ 2 did represent the chage in ship design better

JATF

[TechWins]

Originally posted by jatf
What is really needed is a better system of ship classification. Destoyers in WW1 were totally different to WW2 and completely different today. Yet they remain the same in CIV.

Although the cruiser to AEGIS crusier path in Civ 2 did represent the chage in ship design better

JATF

Isn't the case for all units in Civ? I personally don't see that as much of a problem.